Know that while useful in some scenarios, I'd avoid buying a color e-ink display if you're still going to primarily be using it for B&W colors.
To quote the eBook Reader Blog [1]:
> The main drawback with color E Ink screens is they look darker than regular B&W screens because of a color filter layer that is applied over the top of the screen, which makes the contrast appear lower. Kaleido color screens are really just regular black and white E Ink Carta screens with a fancy passive filter over the top (that’s why color resolution is lower than black and white resolution).
It's true that the contrast is not as good, and IIRC the color resolution is also a bit lower (but is not bad overall). But people who plan to read B/W documents could still benefit from a device like this because it makes highlighting much better, and it enables color-based reading enhancements like BeeLine Reader (which improves focus while reading).
I'm certainly biased (I created BeeLine), but IMO the color screens that Kobo is using are good enough to make the tradeoffs worthwhile. It's also interesting to see innovation among one of the major players in this space. The companies that have made color ereaders before now have been a bit dodgy in some cases, so Kobo will bring a level of legitimacy to the space that's very welcome.
EDIT: the price is also very favorable compared to other color ereaders. Ones I've considered in the past were around $420, which is roughly 2x-3x the price of Kobo's new units.
Halving the DPI in each direction (vertical and horizontal) means you end up with only a quarter of the pixels: 0.4 megapixels instead of 1.6 megapixels.
I thought they were 300dpi panels, but that the dpi was halved in color mode? I'm curious what color filters they have. Perhaps each 2x2 pixel has 3 filtered dots (RGB) and one fully transparent dot?
I have a Boox Ultra Tab C (color) and while true I don't find it problematic in the slightest. I went down the rabbit hole of watcing video comparison etc. but in practical terms once I started using it I never once felt that I wanted a brighter/lighter screen. YMMV.
Also have the Note Air 3C (same screen iirc). Still getting uses to it (never have used eink before) but so far soon good. I don't think I'd want to switch to monochrome even if the contrast is better.
OT: How happy are you with the Note Air 3C? How long last the battery? Any Problems with the build quality? I've read a lot bad stuff about the device and have mixed feelings
I've used a Pocketbook Color for over a year now. And yes, it is a somewhat darker screen, but that mainly just means I turn on the frontlight in some cases where I wouldn't have needed to with other e-readers. I've otherwise been having a good time with it - comics and PDFs benefit greatly from the color screen, and regular text is fine too.
Agreed, I picked up Pocketbook Color for 150 Euros on a sale and it has become my main bedtime reader.
Disclaimer: I've been using e-ink based readers for over 10 years. My current lineup is Kobo H20, Remarkable2 (which I sort of love/hate), and Sony DPT-S1 (which is fantastic for bigger PDFs).
B&W is fine on color e-readers. I actually enjoy the washed out color look as well.
Fully agree here, I'm in the PocketBook Color squad since 2020 and got it at full price and absoltuley love the thing. Appart from the fact they don't sell official covers for it anymore since i seem to disassemble those regularly.
How can an article about the contrast issues and resolution of different e-readers not include any photos other than a single promo photo from a manufacturer of one device showing only one device?
"has lower contrast" means absolutely nothing without being able to quantify it.
> Kaleido color screens are really just regular black and white E Ink Carta screens with a fancy passive filter over the top...
Yeah, and I remember an interview where they also said that is why colour e-ink's screen are not at all costly to manufacture. But adoption is slow because they sell it at a "premium" price. Even B&W e-ink can be a lot cheaper.
Does that mean these have better refresh rates than other color eink screens? Lower contrast is not the end of the world for me, but a 15 second refresh time is :)
Yeah, the refresh times are much better now. They used to be 10-30 seconds but are now manageable. I think it might be a little slower than B/W, definitely not 30 seconds. Some color eink displays even offer video, with different settings for higher fidelity/slower frame rate versus lower-fidelity/faster frame rate.
This is eink while Pixel Qi was transflective LCD what is sometimes called e-paper. Transflective displays are used for some smartwatches, Garmin ones have long battery life with them.
> This is eink while Pixel Qi was transflective LCD what is sometimes called e-paper.
Although “e-paper” has been used to describe transflective LCDs at times, in my experience it’s far more commonly used to describe e-ink panels, especially larger ones.
I have very little to add about the color aspect, but I can say that I love my Kobo. I've had three Kindles before buying the Kobo, which I got because it has a "better" integration with my local library (better in quotes, because I still have to do with the Adobe DRM, which is so bad on Linux that I borrow my wife's computer just to transfer).
The Pocket integration is fantastic, as are the physical page turn buttons. I always thought they were unnecessary, but I really do prefer them now. The warm night light is also great. It's a bonus as well not to be in the Amazon ecosystem more than I have to.
The biggest downsides are maybe a bit niche: the dictionary is terrible (although you can upload your own, but not make it the default) and there's no built-in translate function. I read mostly in my non-native language, so these two features make life a bit more difficult, but they're outweighed by the rest.
It's now possible to do this 100% within Linux, without running any emulators or Windows software, even though Adobe don't care about Linux support.
Knock is no longer maintained, however apparently it was just a wrapper around libgourou which is still maintained.
Installing libgourou (on Arch Linux it can be found in the AUR) allows you to download the ACSM file to a PDF or ePub:
# Use your username and password from https://account.adobe.com
# This registers your device so only needs to be done once.
adept_activate -u user -p pass
# Download the ACSM file
acsmdownloader -f myfile.acsm
The downloaded file requires a password to open it, but if you need to open it in a normal viewing application, you can also remove the password:
adept_remove file.pdf
This process allows Linux users to access the same materials as their Windows and Mac friends, even without support from Adobe.
One reason that I love my Kobo is perhaps very tech-specific in a way this audience may appreciate.
It's great for plain text files. In particular, it's pretty good at reading plain RFCs. I have to choose a font size so the hard-wrapped RFCs fit right, and it doesn't ship with a monospaced font (but you can install and use your own fonts, so that's a minor speed bump).
Reading very dry and technical documents like RFCs can be challenging, so having a distraction-free ereader that handles them can be very helpful.
Same journey here; except using the Calibre Web integration, an absolutely gamechanger. No need to plug-in to sync my own books, they're pulled straight from my Pi. And I love how all that was required was editing a line in the config file on the storage; they seem like fairly open devices.
Also glad to get away from the Amazon proprietary formats.
I have a Libra 2 for personal reading and an Elipsa 2E for journals. A couple of minor nits like you mentioned aside, I love them. They can read almost any format I throw at them, I can fetch books directly from my library, and if I add an article to Pocket on my laptop then it shows up on my Kobo next time I pick it up.
I also read way more now that I've gotten the Libra, largely because it's so light and ergonomic for laying in bed at night and flipping pages. I added a popsocket to the back for easier 1-hand holding.
The Elipsa is better for reading large content like Communications of the ACM or similar, where the Libra was simply too small to be readable. I hardly use the pen for either highlighting or notes, but it's there if I want it.
If/when either of those die, I'll look at the color versions as potential replacements. It highly depends on how much of an effect the lower resolution has on readability. If it's less pleasant to read at night, or if PDF journal articles are a little fuzzier, I'd rather stick with B/W. If the only downside is that the screen is a bit darker so I have to turn the backlight up, then only get 2 weeks between charging instead of 4, I might consider it.
FWIW, we bought an arm to hold the kobo up while we’re reading (one of those smartphone holder things, they’re a dime a dozen) and a little device that clips onto the kobo. It comes with a remote, and you can turn the pages with it by making the kobo think you’ve touched the display with your finger. Best 50$ I ever spent (arm + clicker). Now I can turn pages while in bed without holding the kobo and with both hands under the cover. It’s the little things :)
Which Kobo model would you recommend for both reading and creating notes that can be saved as text?
I am considering getting one for my software development work, so that I can read on the go, while sitting, or in bed, and also jot down short and medium length notes about my project ideas, during my daily walk (in the rest break).
Walking helps me to think better.
A laptop is too heavy to carry around everywhere, and particularly when walking.
Disclaimer: Not a Kobo employee; don't have deep knowledge of their product line; just own and happily use a couple.
The Elipsa 2E is very nice for large format reading and note taking. I bought it recently and compared it to other options from Boox and reMarkable. I ended up with it because I already had and enjoyed my Libra 2, and "like the Libra 2 but bigger and with a stylus" was appealing.
That said, if I wanted something for your use case, I'd probably start with the Sage. The short version is it's a Libra 2 with a stylus, and that seems like it'd be a good combo.
Somewhat related, I tried some non-electronic options for such things before, like a Rocketbook. Clever idea but I didn't like the implementation at all. Its OCR couldn't deal with my handwriting at all. I now have 2 distinctly separate note taking systems:
- My Elipsa 2E for writing down meeting notes (while avoiding the distractions of an iPad or laptop, which is important for me personally but other people might not care about at all).
- A paper journal (Traveler's Notebook) I take everywhere and use for my personal thoughts.
- I lied. Number 3: "hey Siri, remind me ..." for capturing ideas while I'm out and about, and then I follow up with them when I get home. That works so well with AirPods, too. If I have an idea while I'm out jogging, I can ask Siri to remind me about it without breaking stride. First time I did that it felt like Star Trek.
I use the Siri approach all the time. I'm not going to stop running long enough to catch my breath and dictate a novel into the thing, but "Hey Siri, remind me that cats can eat pancakes" is enough to let me resume the thought when I'm back home and resting.
After aching eyes from being a heavy reader of ebooks on my iPhone, I got the cheapest most basic kobo - basic even by the standards of the day when I brought it - and instantly fell in love.
Haven’t needed to change default software, haven’t needed to enable WiFi etc. just need a usb cable and calibre app and it all just works great.
My fiction addiction is through the roof. Never realised how big a deal getting a kobo is.
I owned a Kobo Glo and Pocketbook Touch, and I preferred the Pocketbook, because it allows to install koreader as a application into the stock firmware, while on Kobo you need to quasi dual-boot your system into koreader or stock firmware via a menu.
In my experience koreader integrates much better with calibre and allows managing my library with a filestructure. So that is a requirement for me.
Also the stock firmware on the Pocketbook was able to deal with my huge epub archive, because it didn't require indexing the library on the device, which Kobo struggled with.
From that experience I would pick a Pocketbook over a Kobo.
IMO Kobo is absolutely built to be a "better managed library experience" than kindle - but as you say other platforms are better if you have a large non-drm'ed library. Unless you plan to buy books from publishers / use the overdrive (now Libby) system, I do think a more user-focused offering like Pocketbook will be better.
I think this is a place where some regulation could do a world of good. I wish I could buy any ereader I want and shop at any bookstore I want. I wish publishers were forced to respect first sale doctrine on digital goods.
I fully agree! I'm also disappointed (but not surprised) that kobo (or some other 3rd party epub seller) hasn't created an API where you register a key pair (or whatever) and can decrypt books on your devices. I suspect it's based on publisher demands. Ironically, this is one place where a blockchain might be useful - sales are recorded on it, contracts are written with respect to it, and if the publisher goes belly up users can run nodes to maintain it.
There are multiple ways to install Koreader now. I think the most common is to use KFMon and NickelMenu which installs the quasi-operating system into a book in your main menu.
I purchased a Kobo Libra 2 and it is indeed fantastic. Battery life is incredible, and syncing with the Libby app for books from my library is fantastic. I do wish it could integrate with Raindrop as opposed to Pocket, but the Pocket works okay enough. Can transfer .pdf or .epub from Linux/Mac/Windows easy, and it looks great on the device.
The only reason I've held off on switching to Kobo is that I always switch back and forth between the audiobook and the text for what I'm reading. Kindle books make it seamless, but as far as I can tell, there's no audio-text sync in the Kobo ecosystem. Is that still accurate? Even if you use books bought from amazon/audible?
FYI Kindle is in the process of rolling out a new feature that enables read aloud with synchronized text highlighting. It doesn't sound as good as an audiobook, of course, and it's not as good as the Alexa-powered read-aloud. But it's still nice because you don't have to switch between the Kindle app and the Alexa app.
I understand that some users currently have access, and it will be rolled out to everyone in the next month.
I agree the pocket integration on Kobo is the thing that sets it apart from the rest. I lost my Kobo a while back and bought a onyx boox, and although I have an almost full fledged android E-ink tablet-ish ereader now. I resent to pick it up since it's so dependent on data and electricity, I don't feel I can always just use it.
I have koreader on my Clara HD. Unfortunately it doesn't work well on Clara 2e and perhaps later devices too. Means I have to stick with Clara HD for now (which is fine). Hopefully there will be something available if/when I need to replace it.
I am on a 10 year old Kindle and looking to replace it but most of my ebooks are from Amazon. Would it be seamless to transfer my books to Kobo via Calibre or some other software or it will be pain in the butt?
From family with a mix of kindles and kobos: yes, this is painless.
You can check beforehand by installing Calibre with the de-DRM plugin and transferring a few books: Once they are on Calibre you are good to go.
One thing I only learned today is that you can set up web sync from Calibre to Kobo [0], [1], but just plugging in to sync has been working fine for me.
For the initial sync, it used to be you could directly de-DRM your whole collection from the storage of the kindle desktop app. At some point the desktop app was using a DRM that had not been broken: I do not know if this is still the case, or if there is another way to download everything from your account.
re: the library integration, I'm confused about how you or your wife's computer is even involved in the process. For my kindle I borrow books on libby and amazon magically beams them over. Does your library not use libby? Are you taking extra steps to avoid amazon?
I've had a kindle for years now. A while back I jailbroke it and stuck KOReader which has been so awesome. (Custom fonts? Yes please! Gestures for going to the TOC or bookmarks or back in history? Absolutely!)
Problem: it was a lot of work getting my kindle to this state. I'm terrified to turn on WiFi for fear Amazon will send an OTA update and nuke KOReader from orbit.
So, when this kindle dies, I am thinking I'd like to get something that KOReader runs on without any of the shenanigans I had to go through. Would folks here recommend Kobo? Seems like a nice equivalent.
Have been using various Kobo's for years with KOReader now, it's basically as simple as copying files on the device to install it. There is no need to jailbreak it; it's an open device. Also, I haven't heard any mention of covert update to worry about. So yes, I would absolutely recommend a Kobo for your use case.
A few months ago, I attempted to do install KOReader on a kindle, and the experience is definitely not for the faint of heart. Plus, I can't use the wireless capabilities for the reason you mentioned. It was (one) of the reason I wanted to install KOReader in the first place, but live and learn.
I actually also own a kobo and have been running KOReader on it for a couple years now, but my memory is that when I first got it I booted it up and it requested to be connected to the internet, then wouldn't allow me to progress without logging in through a 3rd party (there were many offered, walmart.com was the first option listed). I remember having to do something weird to bypass that (removing a .db file I believe after connecting via commandline?), and then ending up in a state where I don't need to connect to some company's cloud login but I also can never connect this device to wifi, ever, or it will do that again.
I remember that now. It really is frustrating that this is what passes for a really open device in the e-reader space. I would pay a 3x markup easily for the same device running KOReader natively (not sideloaded through nicklmenu after starting up the proprietary operating system) if it would just let me use the device like I own it without authenticating with a 3rd party just to its most basic functionality.
non-obvious but you just use it like a usb device ereader when you receive it:
- connect to computer with usb-c
- mount as usb drive
- edit .kobo/Kobo/Kobo eReader.conf adding SideloadedMode=true
- remove .kobo/KoboReader.sqlite
- reboot, then just use kobo as usb drive from then on, no account necessary
got one and use it more than my remarkable because it has a backlight for indoors (in addition to e-ink for outdoors)
I love my Kobos (see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39993062). When they die, I'll replace them with another Kobo. It's so easy to get things onto them. For my Libra, plug it into a computer (or iPad) with a USB cable and it shows up as a drive I can drag files onto. The Elipsa supports Dropbox and Google Drive so I can add files those ways, too. It also has built-in Libby integration that lets me reserve and download library books from the device itself.
Of course they make it very easy for you to buy books from their own store, but I've never felt like they made it artificially hard to ad content through other methods to benefit their own book sales. That's different from what my friends tell me about their Kindles.
I have an Oasis 2 (2017 or so timeframe). What would be a good option that's similar to it? I love the screen size, the flush screen (I understand the Oasis is glass rather than plastic), and the page turn buttons are all pretty important to me.
KOReader sounds interesting and the built in Libby support is kind of rad sounding.
I think that'd be the Libra 2. The screen's the same size, although not flush, and it has the nice page turn buttons. I can't vouch for their other models.
KOReader sounds cool but I've been happy with the built-in software. I know me, and I specifically don't want other knobs I could be playing with instead of just reading the thing.
It seems it's between two devices, the Libra 2 and the Sage, but I keep hearing the Sage has worse battery life (sort of the downfall of the Oasis for me as well). I just like using Calibre since I get a lot of epubs from places like HumbleBundle and other book bundles. These always have issues with the Kindle, like covers going missing.
I'd love to get something a little less fickle for my use case and it does sound like the Kobo devices might get me there. I just really like the Oasis from a materials, size and general usage.
The Sage looked nice but the price premium for a stylus wasn't worth it to me for a device I wanted to use purely for reading. Obviously there's a market for such a thing so I'm not saying it's bad, just that it didn't might my own needs.
Calibre works well for the Libra 2. I have a plugin that automatically reformats epubs as kepubs (see https://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/Kepub). That's not a hard requirement but it improves the reading experience a little bit. The biggest difference I notice is that it makes page numbers handle font size changes more accurately. If I halve the number of words that'll fit on the screen, the reader shows that the number of pages in the book has doubled. Also, the current page number increments every time I turn a page, not just when I cross an invisible page boundary.
It's not a dealbreaker not to have those things, but they're nice and worth the 30 seconds to enable in Calibre.
Nice. I think I might keep an eye on potential rumors of a Libra 3 or something like that given that the Libra 2 came out in 2021, that's nearly 3 years old.
But that gives me time to save a few buckets as well. For now the Oasis is working well enough, just it'd be nice to get away from some of the paper cuts.
Same here with me and the color versions here. If and when I need to replace what I have now, or maybe a software update makes me want to throw them out a window or something, then I'll take a look at the new options. It's highly unlikely I'd get rid of my currently working and mint condition and known-good readers before that.
I liked my Kobo, but it bricked itself after only about a year. I took it apart, and a voltage rail was shorted out. I didn't even finish the first book I put on it!
I have a Boox note. I can’t help the feeling that it’s not entirely legit, but it’s Android, connects to any service I want (including a Calibre library), has a great display, is great for notes, and is all around fantastic. It’s not a tablet replacement but it IS a replacement for the stuff I do most often with a tablet (read and write). I thought the 10.3 inch display would make for a hefty reader, but it’s perfectly fine.
Btw, I started out using it with KOreader but have ended up just using the built-in reader because it does everything I need. The smaller Boox devices are great too, but their USB plug placement decisions are sometimes VERY WEIRD (my Note Air has a hole in the case spine to allow me to plug in with the cover closed, for example—not a dealbreaker, just odd).
I love the black and white boox as a low tech device. I do a lot more reading and a log less mindless scrolling on my boox tablet. There's also grayscale chrome and firefox plugins if you want to see what it's like.
Same. I almost never use the browser in the first place. I think I’d say the same thing you did but changing the focus to: I love that the b&w boox has made me understand that a low tech device serves my most important needs.
Kobo is good. I'm also fond of Pocketbook readers, and KOReader runs there too.
The main difference is that Kobo has its store available, so you can buy and read on the device. I'm more into managing my own ebook library from multiple sources, using Calibre, so I don't need the built-in store; you might want it though!
I’ve been happy enough with my Kobo Aura One in its stock state that I’ve never toyed with KOReader or similar. Plug it in, it mounts as USB mass storage, I drop in ePubs, PDFs, etc and it reads them perfectly. No third party software required, “just works”.
I have had koreader on my Kobo Aura One for years without any problems. I haven't needed to mess with it or update koreader or anything which is nice, don't even remember how I installed it.
I migrated from Kindle to kobo many years back to keep physical buttons. It's been a strict upgrade for me, though your fear of an update nuking koreader from orbit remains an issue. I just keep mine in airplane mode to avoid updates and a reinstall is only a few minutes if I forget.
I had a kindle voyage which I jailbroken to put Koreader on. Because of the micro USB and lack of water proofing I decided to upgrade (the device was around 8 years old).
I got a Kobo Clara 2E, installing Koreader was very easy and works very well. Absolutely recommend.
FYI I've been running multiple jailbroken Kindles connected to WiFi with KOReader for a few years now. Just install renameotabin and you're good to go. You can even register it like a normal Kindle.
Bleh, and I was just up until 1am last night reading about black-and-white PDF compression schemes for my Kobo :) Technical knowledge obsoletes so fast.
(Well, maybe not that fast: ImageMagick's best-performing monochrome scheme is, apparently, one that was standardized for literal fax machines in the 1980's [0]. A very basic one called "Group 4").
Mmm... I patched a fax4 decoder for rust the other day. It's an interesting format. But amazing really. It's still widely used the mortgage industry, specifically the land record systems.
Kobo enthusiast, and I'm excited to see that they are the first to market among the Amazon/B&N/Kobo crowd to get a color e-reader to market.
I don't see myself getting one, though, at least not immediately. I'm perfectly happy with my Kobo Sage. While I'd like to one day have a color e-ink device, the color reproduction just isn't good enough for my use case. Reading comics on my AMOLED tablet is a joy, and I don't see e-ink getting to that level for at least another couple years.
Plus, I don't want to take the hit of worse PPI for B&W text just so I can have a book cover or some highlighted text in color.
My main reason for thinking about getting one is because i like to sit on the terrace with a lot of indirect sunlight and eink is just so much better in that situation. However prices are still way too high and it’s impossible to find a place to see them in person before buying.
Been wanting a new e-reader. The power button on the bottom of the Kindle has driven me insane. How somebody could actually design something so stupid boggles the mind.
My experience with ebook readers is as follows: I read mostly scientific PDFs, with formula's, graphs, etc. First I tried the Kindle - it was completely useless because of screen size. I went for PocketBook Inkpad Lite - the page size is more or less fine, but the page turn delay is noticeable. It's so subpar to the real book when you can just browse through pages quickly. Finally I picked up the biggest Chinese tablet I could find (Doogee T20 Ultra 12") and it is the best experience so far except one thing the screen is glossy, not mat, and it affects my reading experience. E-ink ebook readers are perfectly fine for prose etc.
This looks good, but I probably won’t get it. Just today I bought on Kobo the works of Michel de Montaigne, a natural philosopher nestled between the Stoics and later philosophers like Ralph Waldo Emerson and German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche.
This book I just bought has some color illustrations so I also opened the book on my iPad using the Kobo app, and while I enjoyed seeing the color illustrations, not a big deal.
All that said, I like being a Kobo customer, and I really like that my local physical bookstore gets a little money each time I make a Kobo purchase.
À friend of mine has a Boox color e-reader and absolutely loves it. There's a lot of skepticism out there (I was a skeptic myself before she bought it) but it's honestly quite impressive.
E Ink has been developing a full color tech they call ACeP. This tech has no color filter like Kaleido 3 so can run at full resolution and better contrast. Wonder if this tech will reach ereaders soon. Rumors are that Amazon is considering ACeP.
There was one on the market, but not from the well-known names: the Bigme Galy. Doesn't seem to be available anymore though and Bigme's site has no mention of it
Interesting. Yes looks like that ACeP screen had reasonable specs on paper with 300dpi and as low as 500ms color refresh. Seems like this tech could be getting closer. Reviews of the Galy were terrible though and it’s unclear how much of that was from the screen vs. the device around it.
Still watching this space and holding out with my Kindle Paperwhite.
Yes, current ACeP displays have an extremely slow refresh and low resolution. They are sold exclusively for digital signage. Potentially in the next few years, according to rumors there may be a version suitable for ereaders.
I've wanted a color Kobo for years, but I'm a bit disappointed.
The main benefit of a color eReader is for (some) PDFs, comics, etc., all of which benefit hugely from a larger screen than the Libra's 7" display. I hoped Kobo's first color reader would be at least 8", and preferably 10.3". Carrying all my RPG PDFs on a color eInk display would be super cool, as I find reading on such a device much easier on my eyes than an iPad.
I think the argument for color is much weaker on a book-sized reader. You get the library and sleep screens (which are admittedly cool to have in color!), but the rest of your usage will mostly not benefit. Kobo's PDF software isn't great, though there are third-party readers you can install that improve the experience. No matter how good those are, though, they still benefit greatly from a larger display.
Presumably, this is just the first step. IIUC, the Libra 2 is their most popular reader, so I suppose it makes sense. Just a bit disappointing.
Color PDFs and comics almost always assume good, full gamut color reproduction. e-ink can't do that. It can only do a few pastel colors well.
The typical books usage is much more in-line with the capabilities of the display. Highlighting is substantially improved with even a little color, as are interstitial art and cover icons.
The E-Ink Spectra 6 displays [1] released last year has full color gamut, thus beating any other display technology in an outdoors scenario. The problem is that they take something like 12 seconds to refresh and I haven't seen any consumer devices using them.
In the near future I think spectra displays will be excellent for readers when they manage to get the refresh a bit more speedy, while ironically the B&W displays with color filters will be the E-Ink technology suited for tablets and phones in general.
Any color at all would be invaluable for diagrams, schematics, graphs/plots and other reference material where different subsystems, pipes/cables, datasets, etc are distinguished by color.
Will it be good enough for, say, graphs? A lot of scientific papers and news articles have illegible figures when reproduced in black and white, because you can't tell the lines apart.
Depends on the graph and newspaper. The best case scenario is a desaturated version of old print newspapers. Their DPI was near this screen's DPI (200 vs 150) and it'll suffer from the same problem of losing low contrast details. You won't be reading rendering papers, but it'll probably help a basic line graph.
I suspect the iPad will remain the best option for stuff like RPG books. It's relatively cheap, the screen is large, it's fast and responsive, etc. It's not pleasant for reading in a dark room, but otherwise it's close to the ideal.
> The main benefit of a color eReader is for (some) PDFs, comics, etc., all of which benefit hugely from a larger screen than the Libra's 7" display. I hoped Kobo's first color reader would be at least 8", and preferably 10.3"
Same. I'm visually impaired, which means I use large print for my reflowable content. I'd love to read comics or PDFs of print magazines, but for that I'll need a display that's larger than what those are normally printed on!
Afaict there are no decent vendors offering genuinely large color e-readers— just some GPL violators' whose devices run Android.
If I can't get a super-magazine-sized e-ink display for fixed-layout content, the next best thing would be a very large one that I can put in landscape mode and fit to width, scrolling only vertically. That wouldn't be too bad, especially if refresh speed is okay-ish. For that, though, I'd still prefer something larger than my Clara 2E (which I love).
Their 10' model is already over 350EUR in price, adding a colour screen to it, it would make it too expensive to have mass appeal. I suspect the next models, which will probably be a Sage 2 and an Elipsa 3 will be what you want, after they whet the appetite of regular readers. Hopefully they'll have a next iteration of the colour screens also. :D
I do like 6 inch e-readers, I think I would have to see IRL how the screen looks.
For my usage color is not necessary, I don't even read manga on my device because I haven't found a good reader. I had bought an android based one for this purpose but I didn't like how the screen looked. I guess I'm fairly picky.
I think the only reason I'd get a colour one is simply to see book covers in color. It's minor but it might be worth 30 extra euros. Then again, I'd have to see how different the screen looks.
I wouldn't mind an even smaller screen. I read fiction on my phone in bed to fall asleep at night. In order to do that, I have to lay on my stomach and hold the phone with one hand.
I've tried it with my 6" Kobo Clara 2E and it's just a little too awkward to be usable. Maybe if it had some physical buttons on it somewhere, but it doesn't.
Oh, that's interesting. Pretty much exactly what I'm after! It has better specs than my phone. Says it runs Android, so I assume it's reasonably "open".
More or less. There are ways to flash arbitrary android builds on Boox devices, but you'd lose a lot by doing so.
The Boox software is actually pretty good. It does a lot to make non-e-ink optimized android apps work well on an e-ink screen, and lets you tweak it as you see fit, so you can adjust contrast and whatnot to make text and elements work. Its not always flawless, but it does work.
The in-built reader application is very good, particularly when it comes to annotations and whatnot. It has a dedicated notebook feature, but I've never been one for hand-written notes, so I don't really use it. And if you don't like the built in one, you have the advantage of being able to load any android reader application you like. Google Play Books, Kindle, Nook, KOReader, MoonReader, whatever, they all work.
Now, in the spirit of full disclosure, I have the larger, A4 sized Onyx Note, and use mine primarily for sheet music. But it works very well as a technical paper or programming book reading device, in a way that kindles and other smaller readers are insufficient. So some of my experiences might not carry over to the Palma. But I can't imagine Boox going through that much differentiation of their product SKUs to the point where this comment will be wholly accurate.
> This has the potential to turn into a reading positions subthread :)
Wish granted!
If I lie on my side for more than a minute or two, my hips ache. Only a little at first, but if I ignore it and fall asleep, I will wake up in writhing agony 30 minutes later. Been like this since my 20's. Reasonably healthy otherwise so I don't know what the deal is. Otherwise, yes, this would be the ideal reading position.
Extra credit: I can only FALL asleep on my stomach, but I can only CONTINUE sleeping on my back. Which means almost every night, I somehow flip myself over without waking up.
Oh I'm the kind that rotates while sleeping like i'm getting roasted on a spike. Same while reading in bed. But I alternate between both sides and lying on my back.
Speaking of unknown conditions, when I was younger I was mostly reading on my stomach... with the book on the floor and half my face outside the bed to look down. Until I got my eyes seriously examined and they found my (from birth) astigmatism, I corrected that and started to read with the book closer like a normal person. Have those hips checked, perhaps?
> I can only FALL asleep on my stomach, but I can only CONTINUE sleeping on my back. Which means almost every night, I somehow flip myself over without waking up.
This is me, to a T. It's nice to hear I'm not the only odd sleeper.
I like 6” for fiction and general reading, but I really want a 13” (A4 or letter) for textbooks and PDFs. I think Sony used to have one, but discontinued it.
Right now I’m using a 13” iPad Pro and it’s fine, but I’d rather have a simple ereader with an eInk display and no apps.
I want something like this but just to hang on the wall to display graphs. Why are e-ink displays only ever focused on ebooks, I think there are lots of cool non-ebook applications for this technology but to use it you either have to build something with a soldering iron and a raspberry pi or hack an ebook's OS. I don't understand why there aren't more special purpose e-ink devices for other uses like monitoring, price displays & restaurant menus, etc.
Inkplate used to have exactly what you're looking for. Basically took the eink screens from old kindles, combined with an esp32.
I have 3 of them hanging around my house showing various graphs, dashboards, pictures or other items of interest :)
You can get displays like you're describing, but pricing isn't great. I was surprised by the price levels that Kobo is offering, which is probably a mix of huge volume discounts and aggressive pricing to make a splash in the market.
Have you looked? The devices exist. Onyx Boox has a diverse line of readers, tablets and monitors. Their competitor Dasung offers a bunch of monitors, phone displays and other e-ink stuff as well. But large e-ink screens are expensive compared to small.
I had major overchoice anxiety on their website. Why do they need to create 20 e-readers looking nearly identical? And why are color ones cheaper than the black and white ones?
Just a reminder that that many Kobo devices can run PostmarketOS pretty well. I wrote this interface especially for my Kobo Clara HD: https://github.com/bjesus/air
Are you doing anything cool to take advantage of running PostmarketOS? I've thought for a while it would be nice to have a simple writing environment on my clara HD with an external keyboard.
I used it a few time to VNC into a virtual screen to have my laptop terminal on an e-ink screen. It can even run Firefox, though very slowly. Gopher websites work way better.
It's a complete Linux system and most things work just fine!
Yes, but also a reminder that those older, well supported ones are Freescale i.mx.
After that, Kobo used Allwinner from sunxi (who have a general history of GPL violations) and now something from Mediatek (who had a history of not providing good driver update support). Those are likely completely different, might need a lot of new work to properly get a kernel running on, let alone mainline. Who knows if the bootloader can even be unlocked this time?
If you want to learn more about e-ink ereaders/tablets etc, I suggest this youtube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/@goodereader/videos
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My problem with the e-ink devices is that they still require the same chips/battery/etc as any other tablet, but provide a much limited display to use... so you spend the same money for less.
What we need is some sort of dual display system, maybe a display that can switch between OLED and E-Ink layer... or literally have two displays (Colour E-Ink on the back maybe) so that one can the same processors/storage etc and not have a "waste" (also fewer devices to carry).
> Both use E Ink’s latest Kaledio color screen technology, which has subtle, pastel-like hues and drops from a 300ppi grayscale resolution to 150ppi when you view content in color.
Sounds like color accuracy might be poor, which means comics might not fare so well.
I still have the kobo mini, the pinnacle of ereaders IMO, perfect size for reading fiction. I haven't seen anything more compelling since kobo discontinued it.
That being said I wonder if the color eink display would be useful for displays instead of LCD.
I'm with you on that, I got mine back in 2013(?) on sale for $30 CAD. still works, but battery is a bit weak. They were also neat cause you could telnet into the modified debian os to add you own homebrew apps
On most (all?) kobos, you can also upgrade the storage to whatever you want because it’s a microsd card slotted into the board. Just copy the system partition over to the new sd, expand, done. Mind you, I never needed to do it because 4 or 8GB is a ton of ebooks. I’ll probably never need that much space anyway. But if you’re reading larger files, might be handy.
It was, especially since I consider that a hindrance to using the newer devices for 10-years, which the older ones can happily do with a properly-imaged new SD card. Even though I love my Sage, it makes me consider whether I should grab a Libra 2 if I ever see it on the cheap, just to have a comparable device that still has the memory on a SD card.
The Kobo's that just launched claim they will have better repair-ability through a partnership with iFixIt, so maybe we'll see how that impacts the ability to change the storage.
Give me high refresh rates before giving me color. What I don't get is that people say that e-readers are easy on the eyes, but you still get this epilepsy-inducing flicker all the time when changing pages.
Your ereader might be broken. I don't see any flickering when page turning, other than obviously replace current text for the next. Some ereaders take a bit longer than others to change the text, but even then no flickering.
I haven't seen an eReader that does a full refresh on each page turn in years. Kobo, Amazon, and B&N are all per-chapter by default. Maybe some bargain-bin brands still use the old displays or have bad software?
I have a Kindle Oasis right now that I want to get more use out of, but also can't stand using Amazon products (and have found the Oasis increasingly frustrating as of late, especially as I download more content from non-Amazon sources for my classes). Can any Kobo owners speak to how much of an improvement it is over the Oasis (or any other more recent Kindle)? Should I pre-order the Color or just get one of their existing models?
I've bought the Remarkable 2 and probably 10 Kindles over the past decade.
I have never once been like, "You know what this eink device needs? Color!"
I get that it might be a draw for some people but this just isn't appealing to me and I can't see the mass market use case for color besides color being neat.
I like to upgrade them (the battery life, screen, refresh rate, etc. have all gotten consistently better over the years), I usually have one to leave at work and one for home use, and I give the hand-me-downs to friends and family.
You can also sell them back to Amazon for a pretty good bonus when it’s time to upgrade. I think I sent back an old paperwhite and got $50 + 20% off my Scribe.
Right now I have an Oasis and a Scribe that I use about equally.
Reading is one of my bigger hobbies, I read around 100 books a year on Kindle.
Interesting, thank you. With regard to the refresh rate, I saw a recent eReader recently, the difference with my nine year old eReader is striking indeed.
Well, it's one thing to make an ereader. It's an entirely other thing to make a smartphone. It's not trivial, that's why Onyx released a phone-sized reader instead of a phone.
Hisense made color e-ink smartphones but they didn't make a color model of their latest Hisense A9.
Nice, those look very interesting! I've been very happy with all of the Kobo's I've had, so I can definitely see myself upgrade to the color Clara when my current one fails.
But I would like recommendations about specific sellers, from fellow Kobo users who have bought from those sellers and replaced the battery in their own Kobo.
how far are we from seeing magazine quality e-ink with animation? the colours always look bland and animations still isn't very good. I don't know why progress here is so much slower than other tech
I thought the same thing, and then bought a Kindle on a whim, as I was flying internationally with just a small backpack. The ereader completely changed how and how much I read. Before, I would find time to read a book maybe every couple of months. Now, I read almost every night before bed until I start to drift off. I read much more, and, I think, have better sleep as well as I'm not staring at such a bright screen at night.
The Supernote A5X is the only device that has managed to wiggle its way into my daily life alongside my MBP and iPhone. A big e-reader like the Supernote is amazing not just for reading books but as a searchable journal/planner that you always have with you.
I have too many devices, but my e-reader is one I enjoy using much more than the others.
In contrast, I stopped caring about tablets years ago when my Google Nexus 7 finally ceased working; it was fun, but everything I did on it was also easily doable via phone, computer, or e-reader.
That's correct, and I definitely get that tablets would be good for artists.
Although I also know several artists, including a full-time professional, who don't use tablets to make their art. Unless you count drawing pads which attach to PC as "tablets", I guess.
And when Ford launches a new model, do you respond, “we’ve had cars for over a hundred years now…”? It’s a product announcement, I see no claim that Kobo invented color readers.
How is this different? Kobo is a mass seller of ereaders, they sell what are IMHO the only real contender to Kindles. They also sell ebooks, so they are very interested in making content for color ereaders. Before I clicked the link, my though was "OK, another color ereader for 700€, for the headlines". But they are color ereaders for 150€! For the first time ever, I'm very tempted to buy one, even knowing that I don't need it.
I was also pleasantly surprised by the price. I think these are similar to existing ereaders, except that the reliability and support expectations are different for Kobo. I've been watching as other companies have rolled out devices and none of the companies are as reliable as Kobo. There have been botched releases, delayed Kickstarters, etc.
I would not hesitate to get one of these and not worry about warranty issues or other fly-by-night company problems. Kobo will stand behind these devices, and if there's a problem it will be easily refunded. I wasn't willing to risk $450 on a no-name company, but I'll happily plunk down half that (or less) for one of these devices!
To quote the eBook Reader Blog [1]:
> The main drawback with color E Ink screens is they look darker than regular B&W screens because of a color filter layer that is applied over the top of the screen, which makes the contrast appear lower. Kaleido color screens are really just regular black and white E Ink Carta screens with a fancy passive filter over the top (that’s why color resolution is lower than black and white resolution).
[1]: https://blog.the-ebook-reader.com/2024/04/05/color-e-ink-5-t...