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FYI for those not aware: Vivaldi(1) is the new "true Opera". The original Opera sold in 2016 to "a Chinese consortium"(2)

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivaldi_(web_browser) 2: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/11/business/dealbook/china-o...




That's a rather xenophobic take to be stating so loudly. Is there any reason to believe that being associated with Chinese intrinsically makes it lesser?

Edit: they're all chromium anyways.


The creator of Opera sold the company and created Vivaldi. That's it. To me that means Vivaldi is now the "true Opera". I could replace "Chinese consortium" with "Danish consortium" or "French consortium" and it would mean exactly the same thing (not to mention these are not my words, but copy+pasted from Wikipedia). You seem to be jumping to conclusions about my intentions.

I use Vivaldi every day, and like it very much.


We don't call Deno the new "true Node" even if the founder is the same. Rally, I can't think of any case where X stops being "truly X" because it is sold. Vivaldi is Vivaldi, Opera is Opera.


> We don't call Deno the new "true Node"

We don't? Maybe we should.


Why? The goals are different, the support is different, the stability is different, the use cases are different, the compatibility is different... all in all they're almost as different as Opera and Vivaldi.


From my understanding it comes from a law passed that allows unlimited access by state intelligence services in China to any firms customer data.

  "The most controversial sections of the law include Article 7 which potentially compels businesses registered or operating in the People's Republic of China to hand over information to Chinese intelligence agencies such as the MSS and to conceal the fact that they do so." [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Intelligence_Law_of_t...


The same laws apply to American companies for American data requested by American agencies, is that better? And likely Norwegian too, but I don't know the specifics there.


>for American data

If only! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act


Yes, it is better.


Actually, the Chinese government holding my data is probably better than my own government holding and using it to incriminate me. I'm pretty sure China doesn't share the data they're collecting with their adversaries or even allies.


Which like yeah, but the US doesn't exactly come out smelling like a rose here. The whole EU-US transatlantic data transfer spat surrounding Facebook was because of PRISM which EU courts ruled gave the US the same level of access.

The US even went so far to demand that US intelligence has domain over data no matter where it's stored, and supremacy when it conflicts with local laws https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/apr/29/us-court-....

If you're in the US you could make an argument that it's fine because it's your own government -- which I don't really buy because China can't arrest you over here -- but to everyone else US tech and business should be just as toxic as China if that's the real motivation.


Appealed and overturned: https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0ZU1RI/

> which I don't really buy because China can't arrest you over here

Not entirely true: https://www.politico.com/news/2023/04/19/china-police-state-...


> Appealed and overturned

Look up the CLOUD act passed in response to that.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act


The CLOUD act has provisions that allow a company to challenge a warrant if the target is not a US person and obtaining the data would violate local laws.





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