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Not selfish enough, sorry. Empower the human, regardless of total fertility rate decline trajectory (~40% of global annual pregnancies are unintended; assuming reproductive wishes are affirmed [less or no children], extrapolate future total fertility rate accordingly [points down]).

> bigger societies are better for everyone.

This does not appear to be the case based on the evidence. Bigger societies are better for those in political power, with economic control, and anyone who is a beneficiary of excess/surplus. We should do what is best for the human, not the machine. We already do not properly provide for hundreds of millions of people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_impact_on_the_environmen... ("Wikipedia: Human impact on the environment")

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_impact_on_the_environmen... ("Wikipedia: Climate Change Flowchart")

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_boundaries ("Wikipedia: Planetary boundaries")

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... ("HN: Planetary boundaries search")

https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rate#empowerment-of-wom... ("Our World in Data: Fertility Rate - Empowerment of Women")

https://www.guttmacher.org/fact-sheet/unintended-pregnancy-u... ("Guttmacher Institute: Unintended Pregnancy in the United States")

https://www.unfpa.org/press/nearly-half-all-pregnancies-are-... ("UNFPA: Nearly half of all pregnancies are unintended—a global crisis, says new UNFPA report")

https://www.worldvision.org/sponsorship-news-stories/global-... ("Fast facts: Global poverty")

(thesis arrived at by a preponderance of all available information)




You’ve got that there are a lot of unintended pregnancies. You’ve got that there is an impact on the environment by humanity.

That does not an argument make as much as the points in TFA.


The argument is that more people is better. The Earth carries 8 billion people today, headed toward 10-11 billion by 2100. Why are there so many people? Unintended pregnancies. Less unintended pregnancies (empowered women, family planning, etc) constrains the pipeline of aggregate suffering (because the evidence is clear we're not going to do anything about it current state; why would we presume something would be done future state?) and human impact (less people = reduced aggregate impact). Fertility rate is falling rapidly everywhere in the world, somewhat slower in Africa, but evidence indicates the decline is locked in.

Atmospheric CO2 budget busted, six out of nine planetary boundaries busted, hundreds of millions of people in extreme poverty, and climate change costs are going to be incredible (mitigation, migration and aid, etc). We Are Here. Someone advocating for more people for the goals TFA puts forth? They are either wildly selfish or wildly ignorant. When talking heads, politicians, or business leaders fret about a compressing population pyramid, they worry about labor costs, GDP, economic indicators, growth, and maintaining a status quo. They are worried that capitalism succeeded due to growth externalities and surplus labor. They don't care about the human, they care about the juice they've been squeezing. The US has constructed society as a human factory farm [1], for example. They don't value humans here today, and they want more?

(please let me know if I have left any gaps in building context up wrt the mental model on this topic, I can provide additional citations for any assertions I've made)

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38583968 | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38583281


Your edits have certainly improved both comments.

Population decline doesn’t guarantee human liberty.

Factory farms reflect the hierarchies we see in society. Not the other way around.

I can see unfree (in a non-trivial sense) human labour becoming more valuable in a world with less human labour and no suitable substitutes.

Global population is not quite orthogonal to many of our social problems.


Surplus labor is power to those in power. Scarce labor empowers the individual. Compressing demographics is good for the individual, but bad for economic and political systems.


This is true to an extent but we have never really seen an information economy with a global labour scarcity. If we look at "advanced" economies with physical labour scarcities we see infrastructure deficits and inflation in asset prices.

Having worked behind a computer and behind hammers, saws, on ladders, et cetera I think that political/economic collapse might not be ideal. With that said perhaps my socialist history teachers couldn't overcome the immense power of British propaganda against revolution.





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