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How can Santa keep his lists when the GDPR is around? (worldbuilding.stackexchange.com)
251 points by unleaded on Dec 24, 2023 | hide | past | favorite | 88 comments



More worryingly: if Santa knows who's been naughty and who's been nice, he would necessarily have been aware that the other reindeer had been mobbing Rudolph, but did nothing about it until circumstances made Rudolph's talents useful to the North Pole.


The good kids get to enjoy the worsened global warming, lower air quality, and radioactive fallout from all the coal Santa distributes to the bad kids.


This was part of his plan for Rudolph to toughened up and be ready to lead the sleigh.

Rudolph is basically a Christmas version of Ender Wiggins.


This presumes that "who" refers to all living animals (organisms?) and not just human beings.


I believe Krampus is responsible for non-human animals.


Given that Der Krampus arrives Dec. 6, he's probably just playing bad cop to St. Nick's good cop. According to traditional theology, animals don't have souls, so they don't have much to do with religion, and believers had better be satisfied spending an eternity strumming their harps with neither Fido nor Kat Vonnegut Jr. for company.

(does Dante mention any animals in the 1st circle? Non-philospher non-featherless non-biped animals, that is...)


Animals have stood trial for their actions since the time of the Greeks, and have undergone shifts of being intentional criminals, to automatons of Nature who can't be judged, to self-aware beings with rich inner lives who should stand trial for their actions, but Animal Trials were out of vogue by then.


Cool didn't know that. So when did we evolve souls?


In the theological context evolution is unlikely to exist.


No, in the theological context evolution - the means by which God creates - is irrelevant.


Depending on the religion I suppose.

The old testament was quite clear about creating man and woman explicitly.

Do you have an example of a religion that is more vague and therefore more inviting to evolution?


Are the Whos within Whoville human?


Are they the same Whos Horton hears?


Perhaps he was already giving the other reindeer coal? There isn't much else Santa does to naughty kids.


Supplying coal, for their factories and war engines.


Even Santa was rude to donner and Rudolph when he first found out.


Santa Claus lives off the grid and flies his unregistered aircraft across borders with no use for a passport.

Santa Claus is a free man on the land sovereign citizen


Santa Claus was issued a Canadian Passport in 2013: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canada-issues-...

That said, it expired a few days ago; I don't know if it was ever renewed.


That's just rude. Using children's entertainment to push geopolitical narratives about mineral rights.

- "Still, the Canadian government was careful to drive home the point that it believes Santa's workshop lies within this country's territory. [...] As The Globe and Mail first reported earlier in the month, Prime Minister Stephen Harper made a last-minute intervention in Canada's planned submission to the United Nations commission that is accepting claims for seabed rights in regions such as the Arctic. Mr. Harper asked Canadian bureaucrats to go back to the drawing board and craft a more expansive claim for ocean-floor resources in the polar region after the proposed submission they showed him failed to include the geographic North Pole."


Nah, have you ever met a "sovereign citizen" that gives anything back to the society?


He runs a massive unregulated surveillance apparatus with no opt out and forces adults to accept it by buying the good will of children with goods made by his stable of captive unpaid workers


Damn, the OP is right…


They certainly give back some entertainment value to society.


Yes. Apparently you haven't. Have you actually met a "sovereign citizen?"


Are we still talking about the guys who think they that laws don't apply to them if they claim to be "traveling in a conveyance" rather than driving a car? Or is there some other meaning?


GDPR applies to him if he deals with European individuals. He will land into trouble the moment he steps on EU soil, if they manage to catch him.


At breathtaking 10,238 mph, catching an object is hard to do.


It doesn't matter what citizenship Santa has or doesn't have, the GDPR applies whenever he's processing data of EU citizens.


Santa has a cookie notice now that you must accept when he collects the cookies you leave for him.


Are the cookies you leave out for Santa "strictly necessary"? They might be a species of marketing: you're trying to convince him to give you more gifts.


Also make sure to bake them yourself instead of using third party cookies.


Gluten-free.


I would assume that tradition derives from similar offerings being made to faeries or hearth deities in return for their favor, in which case you're not trying to convince Santa to give you more gifts but rather to not to steal your children and replace them with changelings or lumps of coal because you offended his weird elf sense of hospitality.


My 3 year old asked me how Santa knows when you are sleeping and I told him “metadata” - he asked how he knows if you’ve been bad or good, and I told him, intelligence sharing agreements between five eyes nations. I hope he has a sense of humor about this when he gets older (but he probably won’t remember it)


Just as likely he'll start asking you to check under his bed for the monsters "mega dada" and "the one with five eyes"!


Yes, do be careful with cunning quips to young 'uns! There are lots of legitimate "lies to children" as Terry Pratchet used to say but they can come back to bite you later.

One of those euphemisms for a while, in the UK, was "gone to Devon". I think it arose naturally from gone to heaven being miss-heard. Devon is a popular holiday destination, so going to Devon is a reasonably often heard phrase. Even young enough Devonian (1) children could probably manage to accept that as an explanation!

I can remember being aged around six in an infant school in West Germany. I'm a British Army brat, this was around 1976. We were sat in a circle around the teacher and assistant towards the end of the day and they were asking questions like what were we going to do for the holidays. Several kids responded that they were going to the UK. I had no idea what they were on about. It wasn't important enough to me at the time to ask and I obviously found out later. Even later on, I discovered just how complicated "the UK" really is as a group of entities!

(1) I have ancestry going back sixteen generations in Devon and Cornwall, a thicket in Northants, and a direct male line that vanishes into Hanover. Oh and possibly a C18 serial killer from near Devizes.


Iserlohn, Soest, Bruggen?


Bracht and Paderborn are our postings closest to those (also Rhine D (MG), Soltau and Bielefeld)


I kinda want to see a Laundry Files book where “Five Eyes” is an oblique reference to a demon the intelligence services have enlisted.


Obviously, Santa is a timelord who has assumed the identity of Saint Nicholas of Myra. This explains why he can live forever, why he appears differently to different children using psychic paper (skin color, clothing, shape, different names, etc), can enter homes without chimneys (Tardis disguised as a sleigh) and why his sack is bigger on the inside than the outside. The Doctor isn't the only timelord who has an affinity for earthlings.


At least one time lord claims the name. Although that one probably should not be believed. Santa does definitely know how to get sonic screwdrivers though.


I'm asking my children every time, whether they consent to giving the Santa their list of actions. If they don't consent, they won't be receiving any gifts at all. It's that simple.


The consent should be informed and freely given. Not sure this holds if there's a threat of not receiving gifts!


Gifts are a privilege, not a right, I can't threaten you by demanding $1000 from you for a Macbook.

But you have a point in that a minor can't consent to a legal contract.

And parent is clearly abusing his authority position, possibly with implied threats.


But you can't say "in order to use this service you have to accept tracking". That's not a freely given consent, if the service would work fine without.

But perhaps it's hard to santa to do his job without this data.


Santa can't give personalized gifts without the data.

$5 gift certificate to 7-11 is the standard gift for everyone without tracking


I think if you've left cookies out for him, you've implicitly given consent


I believe this is the real origin of the EU cookie consent banners.


They better get a cookie for consenting to your terms.


There is no "Dont consent", there is only "More Options" that takes a few hours to load and then you get a page with many toggles.


Don't worry, none of Santas 478 partners who he shares your personal information with has any bad intentions.


Do you consent to give your insurance the list of your actions? If you don’t, you won’t be receiving any damage indemnity at all.

I suppose that was the metaphor ?


My main metaphor I guess is that I like to be annoying to my children, but I don't really have children yet, so I'm just looking forwards to annoying my children. It's just the most exciting part of potentially having children - having unlimited power and time to be able to troll them. And seeing how these great neural networks try to adapt to it. I will do my best to keep them guessing for sure.


My father got a kick out of being like this

- there are 1000s of recycling numbers

- color was invented in the mid 20th century, "back in the black & white days"

- giving random sounds to toys (trex goes neigh)

- he told my sister he could fly. She believed it was happening for a moment when he slowly flapped his hands & went up on tippy toes

- accidentally he explained to her a scifi short story where martian colonies seek indepence by collecting water from Saturn's rings. She wasn't corrected until she brought it up at school, where her real father was a bit annoyed about my father feeding her nonsense all the time

Overall good upbringing & it's good to teach kid's not to be so gullible


I really hope you change your outlook on children development by the time you get to having them, unless you're talking about kids older than 7 y.o. If you really want to, you can make kids think whatever you want, that's why religious brainwashing is so effective.


Could you please elaborate on what exactly you hope I change my outlook on.


Trolling, as it may make children not trust your words if what you say is consistently a lie/joke. The children may be also laughed at by their colleagues if they repeat your words at kindergarden/early school.


It is a fair point as people have told me before, but I will show this thread to my children as I get them and ask what is their opinion on the matter before choosing my final outlook as well.


He does not need consent because of Article 6 (e), which says that "to perform a task in the public interest or in official authority" is a lawful purpose.

Also people always forget that the scope of the GDPR is limited. The following three areas are generally exempt:

- Personal or household activities

- Law enforcement

- National Security


Another unelected official in Europe


Did you think of the children?


I guess it becomes household activities the moment he gets into the chimney. Big tech should try to exploit this loophole too, somehow. Maybe make Alexa part of your household?


This seems like it could fit somewhere in Santa Claus: an Engineer’s Perspective: https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~andrew5/cute/engineer_santa.txt


Santa literally performs breaking and entering in every home and nation in the world. He's an international criminal. I don't think he's losing sleep over GDPR.


Should I be envious of any parent who had to actually address this one with a Santa believing kid advanced enough to ponder this one!


Do you have any idea how much his lists of bad girls are worth? The man is a creep.


All I want for Christmas is freedom from being endlessly spammed by anti-GDPR zealots co-opting Santa Claus.


The EU could pass a law giving an exemption to north pole-based charities.


Because he isn't in Europe.


Yeah not really in EU, Santa is more Anglo-saxon thing.


We have him in Slavic countries as well (Poland). Farther to the east they have Jack Frost.


Santa never gets any presents, so he doesn't care being on the naughty list.


that's why we give santa cookies (and milk)


to track him? :)


GDPR should reduce Santa's workload because presents are opt-in now.


Tell you what, I’m opting in to Santa.


You are giving the EU ideas!!!!!


Honestly EU doesn't have to change a single thing. All compliance exists already.

The trick is to not track good children at all, only those bad ones. I'd you leverage sanction lists (that exist already) to track the bad children, you have all cases covered.

Any Santa related contractor (Santa helpers, elves, etc) have to check a sanction list to see if they can finalize a transaction with said child.

As for lists: when a child sends a request for particular gift, it starts a formal transaction. The other entity is legally allowed to process said child's data to provide the service they agreed upon.

Kids that have not sent a letter to Santa and are not mentioned in sanction lists, can still get gifts but Santa lacks profiling metadata and can only provide generic, unprofiled gifts. Which is good as already have sufficient amount of Bluetooth speakers and Paw Patrol toys.


Wait, how would tracking bad kids be less illegal? I think putting bad children on state sanctions list might very well be deserved for some of them, but a bit overkill... Imagine not doing your homework leading to being officially sanctioned by EU governments or the UN... though I'm sure that's a pretty convincing way to make someone do their homework.


I would not optimise for performance yo early. All the building blocks are here. Let's leave "scaling issues" to the Christmas OPS team! Some cloud provider must have a North Pole region, right?


Santa has an exemption for all children until the age of 12.


Above the law?


Nobody is above "the law", just ask Dredd : https://www.facebook.com/889298117788282/photos/a.8893364377...


I mean, NORAD keeps an eye on him, just in case he gets rooted by North Korea and heads for the White House or the Carriers. But they don't have jurisdiction to enforce GDPR.


GDPR could also make it hard on the Sandman and the Tooth Fairy. The Easter Bunny at least is probably unaffected.


Consider he also commits breaking and entering and theft he does not care about the GDPR.


Nah. Making a request of Santa is, by custom, explicily authorizing him to enter make the delivery. Putting out the cookies and milk for Santa, is extra confirmation.


(2018)




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