FWIW I got annoyed with chrome's distracting home screen, and pondered how long it would take for a 10+ year chrome user to switch to firefox. The answer (on macOS) was 5 minutes. I was shocked how easy it was (and, frankly, how similar it was). When you first open firefox, it gives options to import all your chrome settings (including saved passwords etc). Super cool.
After working for a year in 3DSMax, back in the day, someone asked me to show them something in Lightwave. I couldn't find my way about anything.
There is also a far far bigger difference between IDEs than between browsers even if compare only the big names. Compare Visual Studio, IntelliJ and Eclipse.
All the browsers are same.
They were all the same for 10 years. Single window or MDI. Then Opera came with tabs, then everyone got tabs. That's it.
Basically, if we accept the notion that it's hard for someone to switch from Chrome to Firefox we accept the notion that it's hard to move anyone from any ecosystem just on the grounds of them not wanting to touch their muscle memory even a bit. You get to the same option in three to four clicks through different menues. Is it that hard?
> Basically, if we accept the notion that it's hard for someone to switch from Chrome to Firefox we accept the notion that it's hard to move anyone from any ecosystem just on the grounds of them not wanting to touch their muscle memory even a bit. You get to the same option in three to four clicks through different menues. Is it that hard?
As an emacs user in large part to avoid this, yes it us that hard.
It pains me to say that though since I want people to switch to Firefox so it can win against these spyware-laden browsers.
We are all creatures of habit. Even if something is not good in our current experience we often say "yeah, it's bad, but it's a bad I know. Who knows what will be bad in the other software?" - which shows the incredible high threshold this shitty decision by Google has reached for people to seriously consider going back to Firefox (seriously, as in "I've seen more posts about switching (back) to Firefox than in the last 2 or 3 years together")
Which really is a shame. Even worse, browsers (including Firefox) keep erasing whatever differences they do have in a vain attempt at attracting Chrome users while ignoring that their existing userbase chose them for not being Chrome.
I don't use 3D modeling software, but I use a browser for like... 95% of my day. Any minor UX differences are going to be like nails on a chalkboard, given that.
It's no wonder why people don't want to switch, really.
I went from Netscape to IE to Firefox to Chrome and back to Firefox. Sure they're different, but it's not jarring. It's like switching to another car. You can just hop in and drive away. Then you gradually adjust the seat just how you like it and install your favorite air freshener in a natural progression, and so on.
Disliking one browser's UI/UX over another is like trying to drive two different cars: one with a touch screen console and another one with an analog console. There are genuine reasons to want one over the other and it will color how you use it day to day.
Sure, but at the most, having to put up with a touch screen is a minor annoyance, and for the most part, you really don't need the functionality that's gated behind those controls. It's a little annoying, yes.
Browsers are just a window to display web apps and pages, though. And these display identically in Chrome as they do in Firefox. Hence the interactions, which 95% of the time are with the web app, not the browser, are practically identical for the most part as well.
I don't know.. but.. it's the way people may use the computer. A former colleague used exactly one window, no matter if it's word or any other software. And most important: the other programs have to be closed, firstly, before switching to eg. browsing. Even my 85y old grandfather who bought his first computer with 73y is capable to use more then 2 windows at once.
So for me, i work with chrome, edge and Firefox (main) at the same time. Firefox is 3 Windows with 150 tabs each. Chrome for quick and dirty - when I visit or do something I know I won't need it later anymore - and edge is used for being chat and/or differential search with goog and bing and other search engines (I know, it's easier to use a meta search engine, but it's ok like I do)
So.. basically. Each window is a room space in my brain for me and I store knowledge in separated rooms, so I know exactly where the tabs are I'm searching for. It's like a library where I always can look up something.
Using favorites within the browser is not possible for me, because I just forget about them. Not so if I work with all the thousands of tabs open :)
So, it's possible to use different browsers without saying "maehhh.. but, I .... "
If you just like the mental separation but don‘t want Chrome, you could also create Firefox profiles with different themes. You can even tweak the browser icon, so I found that sufficient for mental separation
>So.. basically. Each window is a room space in my brain for me and I store knowledge in separated rooms, so I know exactly where the tabs are I'm searching for. It's like a library where I always can look up something. Using favorites within the browser is not possible for me, because I just forget about them. Not so if I work with all the thousands of tabs open :)
I have a similar thing.
Firefox as the main browser for everything. I don't like Electron apps and since Firefox doesn't do PWA anymore, Edge hosts all those. Chrome for all the Google apps I have to use and streaming services (Chrome has a media hub in toolbar which can control multiple streams/PiP windows).
The big difference for me is that with clipped notes the full contents are searchable. I agree that browser bookmarks are generally poor for reference material, as you tend to forget what you've bookmarked. But by clipping the whole page you essentially build your own searchable database. I use Evernote for this because I started in 2012, but I would look at alternatives first if I were starting today.
If you can't replace your handheld drill to another model because no other model "fits your hand that well", all the other carpenters in the market are going to have an edge over you.
It's also happening with Firefox. Stupid redesign, felt, each new version. It's not about the design.. but it is, because less readability, less contrast, less visible difference between active/inactive tabs.. and so on.. but you're right. Changing browser is a no-go, but having suddenly different UI is not???? Lol.
Do you not see the irony in this? By admitting that you don't notice the (real and fairly recent and large) UI changes in Chrome you've just dropped all credibility from any argument you might have had about caring about the UI being different.
Firefox is really not that different. Even the keyboard shortcuts are the same.
most firefox changes are actually to copy what chrome is doing.
like removing the search bar and forcing sending everything you type in the address bar to a search engine, having a logged in account in the browser, etc
The differences are bigger between Chrome on Windows and Chrome on Mac than between Chrome and Firefox on one OS. At least all of the keybindings are the same.
What like when chrome updates it for you and changed the ux? At least with firefox you have powerful user configurable scripts you can do whatever you like to how things render in the browser. Treestyle tab that fades away when you mouse off of it? Done.
All Chromium-based browsers have a feature that I can't get through my day without. I can write click on any website and say "translate this page into English".
I use this feature around 20 times a day, sometimes more. It's painstaking to do this in Firefox, even with extensions.
Once every year or two I try switching to Firefox, then I remember this is the reason why I don't use it and I go back to Chrome.
The day they add this feature is the day I will switch to Firefox.
if you need a language they haven't developed a production model for yet, you can install the beta version of the add-on, which supports more languages
Oh nice! Good to see they are working on it.
Unfortunately it's only for 8 European languages to far, and the beta version only adds 4 more.
I need Vietnamese. I guess I will have to wait another few years for that. But still, it's progress.
I wonder if they will add the option for cloud providers. While I love the idea of the added privacy of doing it locally, pretty much everything I'm translating is publically available so privacy is not important to make compared to the quality of the translation.
The latest Firefox now has that functionality. Firefox translations also have the added benefit of being 100% on-device, your data doesn't have to go to a Google server somewhere.
Yeah, I see they added that in the last but one release. However it's only for a tiny number of European languages, and not the one I need which is Vietnamese.
I've tried quite a few firefix translation extensions and all of them either open a new tab or a popup, this is the first one I've seen that translates in place.
Afaik they do have an official offline translation extension Forefox Translations that would cover your usecase(maybe)
Ff also does have a Translations setting in their settings page(not sure if it's by default or appears when you install the extension) and you can predownload some offline language packs.
It's amusing to me how similar this comment is to the ones I heard in the mid to late 2000s from Internet Explorer users expressing surprise at just how easy to was to switch. :)
I don't understand why people switch browsers. I have many browsers installed on my machine. For browsing I use a heavily modificated firefox. It would be difficult to use this browser for banking or even booking a plane ticket (plane booking websites can be quite fragile!).
Use a browser for browsing, e.g. firefox with a tons of plus is, from ublock, noscript and a dozen others and use a main browser like chrome for banking and some other stuff. Don't use a minor browser (opera, vivaldi etc.) for banking.
Librewolf is debranded Firefox to remove all the sponsored crap that Firefox inserted: Pocket, Hello, new tab recommendations, default google search, etc.
Mullvad browser exists to advertise a VPN.
I would not recommend the latter in lieu of the former.
Mullvad browser certainly exists in part to advertise a VPN, but offers more privacy protections than Librewolf.
See this response from the mullvad-browser developer on exactly this:
> There are two main reasons, one which you preemptively answered:
> - the privacy model is about having a same fingerprint per platform for Mullvad Browser users, so you're not uniquely identifiable (which will be the case by following privacy hardening guides)
> - it is much easier to recommend to user a browser pre-configured for an optimal privacy: some users will want to tinker, but if you don't have the time or knowledge, it's hard to do the right thing
> There are also more differences than "just a fork of Firefox", I encourage you to read the following page which goes more into the details: https://mullvad.net/en/browser/hard-facts
So as much as I despise companies putting low effort into software rebrands that offer no value, all the facts point towards that very much not being the case here.
Edit: However https://privacytests.org/ shows mullvad-vpn and librewolf as being very similar wrt privacy.
I find it annoying how I need a separate window for each profile in Chrome, I like that I can have one window and some windows are in the work container and some are not. You do need the (official) containers extension though.
> I find it annoying how I need a separate window for each profile in Chrome
I find it way more useful to have a completely unique profile rather than bash everything together in Firefox. Profile specific extensions, for instance, don't work with container tabs. It's a non-starter for me.
I had to use chrome at work and the different windows for different profiles really pissed me off (like, more than is reasonable). I eventually discovered you can have multiple profiles in the same window, it just wasn't the default.
You don't need profiles in Firefox, there's a much better solution called Container Tabs. If you're using profiles to keep things like work and play separate, check it out and thank me later ;)
> With Chrome I just need to make sure that the last focused Chrome window is from the right profile.
There's a setting to always open a tab in the same container profile you click on them from. So as long as you open the page with the link in the target profile, it will open in that profile too — same as what you're saying above, I think?
There's also an easy "open in new container tab" option when right clicking a tab, and "re-open this site in ..." option when clicking on the container tabs extension button.
I stopped using that feature because I have a personal and work Gmail, and I wanted them isolated. But there was some bug whereby every time I'd click any Google link, I'd prompt me to switch to the work container. Others online had the same issue and nobody had a solution
You can set up specific domains to open up in specific tab containers. Obviously for sites that you have never visited before this complicates things unless you have the default tab container be your “throwaway” or not personally identifying profile.
The experience there isn’t perfect and requires some effort to setup but how is that different than getting certain sites to open in specific chrome profiles automatically?
Yes but that doesn't help for domains that I use for both profiles.
Typically Google, when I click on a Google Doc I need to be able to decide to open it in my personal or pro account.
With Chrome it goes to the last focused window so it will usually match what I'm currently doing, otherwise all I have to do is focus the right Chrome window before going back to the external app and click the link.
> Yes but that doesn't help for domains that I use for both profiles
Why not? Since Google's multiple-account handling is awful, I use Container Tabs for keeping my accounts separate. In this case I'm asked if I want to use the container profile I've explicitly set for Google (my work account), or the one I'm currently in.
It's pretty much impossible to have them show up as separate taskbar/dock items. The workaround has always been to run Developer Edition, but that's still not great OS integration. Edge even allows you to pin profiles, and adds the profile icon in the corner.
> FWIW I got annoyed with chrome's distracting home screen
On macos, the Google and Firefox home screens are virtually identical: Big "Firefox" or "Google" title, seach bar, short cuts / recently used. Google is actually less distracting since it never changes.
I've been using "New Tab Redirect" [0] on Chrome and "New Tab Override" [1] on Firefox for many years. They load a custom start page [2] I host locally which also pulls in some issues from Jira.
Also "Keep One Pin Tab" [3] on Chrome to prevent that closing the last tab closes the browser. The same on Firefox but there I don't know what setting I'm using to make it behave that way (update: browser.tabs.closeWindowWithLastTab -> false).
Is anyone else having issues logging in, via username & password, to OpenAI.com with Firefox? That is the only reason I'm launching Chrome these days, OpenAI's login gives an error saying I refreshed while logging in, don't do that and try again... in a loop.
You are annoyed with chrome's distracting home screen that shows your most visited sites but you are not annoyed with firefox's distracting home screen that shows your most visited sites plus some ads?
"Sponsored shortcuts" comes enabled by default, at least on Windows builds made by Mozilla. If you are using Linux I suppose your distro turns it off by default?
btw in my case it adds two ads: Nike and Amazon. They come with tracking parameters that are unique to me (if I create a new browser profile, they change)
It continues to surprise me that people use the home screen, regardless of it being Firefox or Chrome. New window, new tab, I always set that to a blank page, in my mind that should be the default.
It continues to surprise me that people don't make their "new tab page" useful, it's probably the page you see the most everyday. Make it your own, put your bookmarks in there or whatever is useful (I use https://start.me/)
That explains the ton of extensions to manage that page. That does seem like a pretty dark pattern move, I recall it having three options, the last being a custom URL.
You're ignoring the fact that "Firefox Home" itself allows you to customize what it contains. You can remove the recommendations, shortcuts, recent pages, recent bookmarks etc. individually (or strip it all the way down to a search bar).
> You're ignoring the fact that "Firefox Home" itself allows you to customize what it contains.
Correct. I am ignoring that fact because I don't want new tabs to display "Firefox Home" and I am not interested in customizing what it contains.
I want new tabs to display an HTML file that I made myself. Firefox previously allowed doing so.
The replies that suggest using extensions to re-enable the disabled functionality probably have not actually tried doing so. What those extensions do is load the "Firefox Home" content, then (as if on page load) redirect to whatever you set as your custom new tab. Which is just wretched. I could have typed the URL faster than that.
And on the subject of pushing core browser functionality into extensions: Why are things like Pocket, Firefox Sync, Hello, and the like integrated / bundled with Firefox but the ability to set a custom URL for new tabs requires users to install / trust a third party extension?
See also: The deplorable state of "Classic Theme Restorer", another case of "Users who miss the disabled functionality can just install an extension."
For me, a new window or new tab is something that's only active for time it takes me to type in the URL of the site I'm going to. At least earlier having content on that page slowed down Firefox, which is annoying if you just want to go straight to entering a new URL. So setting it to about:blank was a major workflow improvement.
There's no point to the "new tab page", it would be better to have a popup to type the URL into and then hit "Go" and have that open a new tab. For me it's really just a distraction. Why would I open a new window/tab if I didn't know where I'm going?
It surprises me that you'd be surprised. It's convenient to have your most used sites a single click away on the new tab screen, and it still opens instantaneously, so I don't see any disadvantage. If there's something there you find distracting, you can remove it.
> If there's something there you find distracting, you can remove it.
Now you'll have me manage yet another thing, I just want stuff to require no management.
On being surprised, I suppose you're right, there are about as many ways of using a computer as there are users. It's easy to get lured into the feeling that anything you don't utilize yourself is weird and pointless. I never use the "home screen", nor do I really use bookmarks all that much. For bookmarks I get why they are there, I have maybe a hand full myself, but it's not something that I use enough to pay for, or even require, a bookmarking service. So seeing someone actively use one or even depend on it because a curiosity.
It's annoying that defaults everywhere are to be visually noisy and distracting. I guess it works for some kinds of people. Let's say MS Edge used to show news and other stuff on the new tab page, or in the start menu or wherever.
Yes, good users customize this but the default means it's pervasive in people's average experience.
