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Ask HN: What is your experience with Nano-Hydroxyapatite toothpaste?
140 points by speedylight 11 months ago | hide | past | favorite | 148 comments
I have really bad tooth sensitivity and I recently learned about n-Ha toothpaste being a solid treatment for it (mainly the one Boka sells) The fact that n-Ha is the compound that enamel is made of seems really promising but I don’t know enough about it to know if it’ll work and it’s really hard to trust product reviews. Money is in short supply so I really want to make sure I’m not buying into a fad.

I know you all are not dentists or chemists (I’m assuming anyway), but we’ll have the same teeth, so if you happened to use it for a similar purpose and saw good results, I want to know about your experience.

Thank you all.




Use GC tooth Mousse which is a Japanese product and a well kept secret. My dentist suggested it as the only product with actual results on rebuilding enamel. Most Dentists in USA don't promote this keeping in mind their incentives and it's a 30 year old technology with great results. Pubmed has loads of studies you can pursue. It worked wonders for me.

https://www.amazon.com/TOOTH-MOUSSE-X40GM-DENTAL-PRODUCT/dp/...

There's a newer version called Mi paste which is distributed. https://www.gc.dental/america/products/operatory/preventive/...


Maybe Tooth Mousse is great.

But I gotta call BS on the idea that dentists don’t promote it because it’s against their interests. By that logic, they wouldn’t promote brushing and flossing at all.


If you look up academic studies on flossing they nearly all say the same thing, it doesn’t prevent cavities more than brushing and the studies normally end with “well flossing isn’t hurting anything so might as well keep doing it”.

Flossing only helps with gingivitis in which case mouth rinses perform better.

In the studies that do show flossing helps against cavities they are about professional flossing and not self flossing.

So dentists continue to push unfounded claims regarding flossing.


> If you look up academic studies on flossing they nearly all say the same thing, it doesn’t prevent cavities more than brushing and the studies normally end with “well flossing isn’t hurting anything so might as well keep doing it”.

That’s actually a misrepresentation of the studies. It gets pushed by journalists because contrarian “doctors are wrong” takes are very popular, especially when they tell people what they want to hear.

The issue with flossing is that it’s hard to rigorously study over the duration needed to provide significant results. You also can’t really construct a study where you ask one cohort to not study for a couple decades to see if they do worse, because that has ethical concerns. So we’re left with self-reported flossing activity retrospectives. The problem with those is that people who floss tend to have better hygiene and self-care overall, so now we can’t isolate flossing as the reason for better dental health over a lifetime.

> In the studies that do show flossing helps against cavities they are about professional flossing and not self flossing.

This is an example of what I’m talking about: There are studies out there that show positive benefits of flossing, but if you find someone aggressively searching for reasons to discredit flossing then they’ll always find a reason to dismiss the evidence. When the goal becomes to be contrarian or to disprove something, you can always find a reason to dismiss the studies.


It’s always important to ask why and look for the data yourself.

Look at all the wives tales in the past that were semi-effective just because of placebo effects or like you say implementing a health measure (even if it is not directly effective) normally means you have better hygiene anyways.

The problem with flossing is that it is so easy to do wrong which is why only professional flossing has significant effects.

It’s worth people knowing that unless they are flossing on a professional level they aren’t necessarily doing anything to benefit themselves beyond what a mouth rinse would do.


Mouth rinses often contain alcohol or other harsh substances, some of which have a correlation with mouth cancer. By comparison, flossing is comparatively harmless. You can floss wrong, but even that seems better than not flossing.

From experience: I used to rinse AND floss, and the floss always came back with a little bit of organic matter which would’ve otherwise decomposed.

So arguing against floss in praise of mouth rinses doesn’t seem like such an obvious ‘just do it’ idea. It’s probably more nuanced than that. And you can always use the wrong rinse or rinse incorrectly.


If brush my teeth, then I floss, bits of food still come out from between my teeth (they're quite tightly spaced). I don't need an academic study to confirm whether or not the flossing is helpful (unless you're disputing the causal link between food residue and tooth decay)


Im not disputing anything other than when directly compared flossing does not prevent gingivitis, plaque or cavities better than a combined brushing and mouth rinse with regular professional cleanings. Flossing is generally associated with better oral health overall because if you take the time to floss you probably do a better job brushing as well.

The burden is on the flossers to prove the efficacy beyond a secondary link and prove flossing is better in a controlled study. reality doesnt always match what they “feel” it should be.


> The burden is on the flossers to prove the efficacy beyond a secondary link and prove flossing is better in a controlled study

No, you're missing my point - the secondary link is the study of flossing w.r.t. oral health outcomes. The primary (causal) links are whether flossing removes food particles, and whether food particles cause tooth decay (neither of which seems to be under contention here). By just studying whether flossing improves oral hygiene, you're introducing a huge number of variables that are difficult to control for (flossing skill, other hygiene factors like flossing or "rinsing", dietary choices, self reporting errors, etc etc etc).

(edit: to summarize: A causes B, B causes C, but you don't like saying A causes C because people kind of suck at A, and D, E, and F all also cause C which makes studying the relationship between A and C a challenge)


I don't get the criticisms about the effectiveness of flossing. I'm a regular flosser and get all sorts of stuff out from between my teeth that brushing doesn't. Without flossing, that stuff would surely just be stuck there for longer and causing bad breath and whatever else. Maybe other people's teeth aren't as tightly packed or something.


It’s not a criticism of flossing but a criticism for health professionals recommending and putting so much trust in a health procedure that has very little proof it works.


I need to floss (or use toothpicks; remember old timers picking their teeth eith wooden splinters?) to remove food bits stuck between my teeth. It's annoying, and if I leave it go for too long the chunk of celery/greens/whatever-fibers start to stink.

I can't speak to flossing in general, just as a specific action that helps me feel better. I still get cavities despite brushing twice a day for two minutes each with fluoride toothpaste, waiting at least 20 minutes to brush after eating (especially after sugar or acids), and sleeping with my mouth closed (starting a few years ago after reading Breath by James Nestor- vertical surgical tape on my lips and sleeping on my back, took about 6 months before I could do it without the tape).

I also stopped bruxating by relaxing my jaw every night before bed and, for the first few weeks of this, waking up frequently to make sure my mouth was still closed and my jaw relaxed.


Flossing Is Associated with Improved Oral Health in Older Adults

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7375740/


That’s a self reported study and doesn’t control for the effectiveness of flossing.

It’s generally accepted if you are flossing then generally you brush more often and more completely and in overall better mental and physical health than if you aren’t flossing because if you take the time to floss you are paying attention to your body.

But controlled studies haven’t found floss to be effective as mouth rinses and brushing.


Try to floss one of your molars a couple of hours after you eat and smell it a little bit, you'll be disgusted by what you discover.


Ok, but that’s your feeling and that isn’t linked to any long term health of the mouth in controlled studies. If you brush and rinse, statistically it has a better effect than just brushing and flossing.


It doesn’t prevent cavities by itself but it’s a great addition to good oral hygiene.


I don't think GP meant dentists don't promote it so you keep coming back. Sometimes doctors and pharmacists recommend drugs because they've been paid to promote it, and if nobody's paying to promote this one it's not going to get recommended as often, especially if there's a competing drug that does the same thing.


Most dentists are ignorant and/or scammers

https://www.rd.com/article/how-honest-are-dentists/


I’m not sure you should use anecdata from 1997 to infer “most dentists” are what you’re describing. Certainly there’s bad dentists — my implant is proof of that —, but please show us the data that ‘most’ of them are ignorant or scammers.


Thank you, this is the first time I’ve come across this company/product so I’ll give it a shot. One thing that always confuses me about these speciality toothpastes is do I have to keep using them for an indefinite period of time (like fluoride) or do I stop once I get what I want out of it? Right now I use Sensodyne with Stannous Fluoride.


Now I’m suddenly curious: does enamel regrow the way a precipitate mineral will fill in gaps of a porous rock, or is it a more biological process?

Anyways, thanks for the link. I’m going to read then probably try this out.


You got me curious about tooth osteoblasts, some links: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK572055/#:~:text=The%20....

They’re actually called ameloblasts and it seems they do not persist long term (according to our current understanding) “ The cells are part of the reduced enamel epithelium after enamel maturation and then subsequently undergo apoptosis before or after tooth eruption.” from:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ameloblast?wprov=sfti1#1._Morp...

However anecdotally, I feel like my teeth did recover from a crack without any dental work


Last few times I went for a teeth cleaning, I was told about how "tarter" (the supposed "bad stuff") develops mostly around where the saliva glands excrete into the mouth.

I added this to how I was able to have a full hole in my tooth fill back (when poor and in college) in by just keeping it clean, not eating junk food, and swishing spit in my mouth around that tooth religiously for a long time.

Dentist later said, "nope, didn't happen, teeth don't work that way"


Happened to me too, I was surprised when it just stopped hurting one day and healed

Aside: My wife recently had a kid and the experience taught me how much work gets done to you just because you're being monitored that you may not actually need. You definitely need to know your own body and trust yourself to some degree. At least pregnancy is having a resurgence in "natural" birth.

Is dentistry the same? I could see this as plausible. My assumption at times has been that people's teeth all just fell out immediately before the 1900s lol, which is probably further from the truth


Just wait until you see someone bounce between hospital -> inpatient rehab -> hospital, etc. Each step takes the previous medication list as mandatory truth, and then tacks on some new just-in-cases. Watching over the medical system and making sure its constructive behavior isn't outright abusing a patient is a full time job.


> keeping it clean, not eating junk food, and swishing spit in my mouth around that tooth religiously for a long time.

This is why I’ve decided to follow an OMAD (One Meal a Day) diet, if I have to dirty up my mouth to survive, I’ll at least do it one time a day.


I removed white sugar/corn syrup from my diet and my teeth have rarely had issues for many years. Even when I skipped regular teeth brushing in the past.


Note: It can take several decades for the damage to accumulate, even for completely absurd diets. It is very difficult to observe results from changes to lifestyle or routine and correctly attribute them.

Take these anecdotes with a grain of salt.


Decades? Maybe in some people others it can be observed in months.


Most will start seeing dental issues with untreated tooth decay in the beginning or during their 30's, which equates roughly 2 decades of mistreatment. If accelerated, in your 20's after 1 decade.

Assuming you're not predisposed to other issues and that you still brush your teeth at least once a day most of the time, that's the speed of decay you should expect and the timelines you're working with. The daily, monthly or even yearly progression is miniscule, making it difficult to observe if it has been slowed or halted, especially in messy anecdotal tests.

The exception being tooth grinding, which can go faster and is easy to measure.


I want to do that too but it’s a hellish nightmare because sugar is in nearly everything sold at grocery stores, and living in a big city there are also endless temptations. I did manage to kick the habit of putting sugar in tea and coffee though, which is good because I drink those nearly everyday.


Congrats!! Building/stopping habits step by step is easier. Your freewill is stronger than the groceries, wish you success.


I love this comment because I am a strong advocate of free will, but sometimes I forget that I have it. Thank you.


One meal a day honestly sounds like a good way to mess with your blood sugar - at the very least it won't do you any favors, and you'll still have calcium build-up and possible staining from what you drink, and little mechanical use also means whatever gets in gets to stick around longer.


Blood sugar levels are not something that needs to be babysat by a metabolically healthy person. We should be able to seamlessly move from being fueled by glucose to ketones. (Well, I suppose suddenly running out of available glucose because of strenuous endurance activity can sometimes be rough waiting for the switch to complete. Thing is, once in ketosis this kind of activity is easier as energy supply becomes more steady state)

The only broad concern I would have is being more prone to accidentally having too much calorie restriction for a prolonged period, where metabolism reduction, potential thyroid issues, and potential nutrient deficiencies can come into play based on highly individual thresholds.

I also suppose some people who fast, especially on very low carb/carnivore diets can sometimes experience the exact opposite of your concern, their blood sugar levels can become constantly elevated, seemingly induced primarily by elevated cortisol, though also seemingly effected by other complicated individual factors like the kinds of stored fatty acids they are burning.


It doesn't mess with your blood sugar. Assuming you're eating a low sugar meal with high fat and complex starches, your blood sugar stays at a normal level. It does take time for your body to adjust, though.

I can wake up and go for a 15 mile hike with no breakfast and not feeling hungry.


If you could do serious damage to yourself only eating once a day we would've died out hundreds of thousands of years ago.


Hundreds of thousands years ago life expectancy wasn’t 80yo.


That is mostly because of childhood mortality. A large number of babies were unlikely to make it to the age of five. Which significantly drags down the average life expectancy.


And I'm saying if only eating a meal a day did us harm, given the _way_ worse conditions of most of our history, we wouldn't have nearly gotten this far.


I mean it may at first but the body is good at adapting to changes like this for long term (Keto diet is an excellent example of this). Besides I will still be eating carbohydrates (simple and complex) just one time a day but not in the same quantity as 3 meals a day. Reserves of sugar are also stored in the liver in case the body is really desperate for it.


There is an American meme that believes that not eating often and regularly is unhealthy. It’s untrue. Study after study shows that fasting is good for us.


I heard it said elsewhere that a mouse deprived of food dies in a matter of dys while even a slender built human can with water last approx a month before succumbing to starvation. 3 meals a day is more a modern indulgence than best practice.


Exactly. And no one wonders why the countries with the highest rates of obesity are those in which a high calorie breakfast is the norm and actively recommended.

Breakfast is the least natural meal, you should not even be hungry when you wake up, it's unhealthy and should be skipped.


See: intermittent fasting


I think its the former because enamel is a mineral and not living tissue—This is just my uneducated opinion though.


My dentist recommended Mi Paste, and it definitely seemed to help. I ordered 2 tubes of it ~5 years ago, and I use it infrequently, but my sensitivity has definitely been helped.

I have thin enamel on my teeth, I guess it's some sort of genetic thing. I wouldn't say it's solved the problem, I still have to be careful about eating too much that's high in acid and salt (Honeycrisp apples and potato chips seem to be foods that particularly trigger my sensitivity). And when the dentist does a cleaning there are definitely areas that are still sensitive.

But, with infrequent use of Mi paste, my day-to-day sensitivity has largely gone away. Maybe more frequent use would make it better, dunno.


FYI: I looked back through my e-mail and it looks like I ordered Mi Paste from Mountainside Medical Equipment (no affiliation): https://www.mountainside-medical.com/collections/mi-paste


"(Amazon link)"

I decided to switch to a Novamin formula toothpaste about a year ago which is not available in the US.

Looking across Amazon and ebay, it was impossible to determine fake/counterfeit products from real ones and I never made a purchase. Many sellers had obviously incorrect packaging and labeling and you can read reviews detailing the clear counterfeiting going on.

I would worry about the same thing with your "tooth mousse" or, really, any purchase like this.


I’ve been buying Novamin on Amazon. I just make sure that the Amazon product name/description says Canadian and NOVAMIN, so that if they send the American Fluoride Sensodyne, I can return it. I make sure it ships Amazon Prime and allows free returns. My most recent came from Turkey(!?), rather than Canada, but was packaged properly and tasted identical to the Canadian I’d previously received.


Fwiw, our dentist in Australia recommended this for a brief period for one of our kids as he had concerns about their enamel.


What products have you used that are available in Australia?


The GC tooth mousse linked by OP


My dentist precisely suggested I use it. He's a great and smart young dentist working nearby Padua, Italy.


I wonder how it stands up against fluoroapatite pastes like Biomin-F.


link to the toothpaste: https://biomin.co.uk/products/biominr-f-toothpaste


I used GC Tooth-Mousse after teeth whitening, and the sensitivity noticeably decreased. It is simple to apply and has a nice taste. Recommend it!


Do you brush with it or apply it like a face cream?


In a dental office they would squeeze quite a lot into the tooth trays and have it sit on your teeth for 3 mins or so, much like a fluoride treatment.

At home, put some on your finger and rub it on the front and back of your teeth, let sit for 3 mins.

Rinse it off after that time, no eating or drinking for at least 30 mins after.


So would you use it just before brushing? Or is it better to brush (with a toothbrush), then wait 30 minutes (for the toothpaste fluoride to take effect), and then apply GC Tooth-Mousse?


After brushing, just like a dentist would apply fluoride after a cleaning.


Dentist recommended to apply it on your finger and “brush with your finger”


Would love some Pubmed links if you have any.


I’m so glad I made this thread, a wealth of information and recommendations from many people. I no longer feel my situation is hopeless, thank you guys.


Mechanistically, it makes sense. Fluoride is intended to perform a similar role of strengthening the enamel, so it makes sense to directly use the enamel substance as a paste to provide tooth regrowth materials at the site they’re needed. It has helped me with some tooth issues.

Research hydroxyapatite toothpaste prevents cavities: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2023.1199...

In kids: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-81112-y

Research the same regenerates tooth enamel: https://jnanobiotechnology.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.118...

Another thing which is extremely helpful and I wish I had begun much earlier in life is night mouthguards because grinding your teeth in your sleep even in a subtle way does add up over years and years.


There's some association between grinding and sleep apnea, so keep an eye out for it. I ground my teeth for years before apnea, and now that I use a CPAP I notice I grind less. I used to have to get the strongest mouthguard available because I'd chew through them. I got clear aligners a couple years ago and they're quite thin and haven't chewed through my retainer yet.


Caffeine as well. When I cut caffeine to 200mg a day, grinding drops by like 90%. Supplementing magnesium before bed helps significantly.


> Another thing which is extremely helpful and I wish I had begun much earlier in life is night mouthguards because grinding your teeth in your sleep even in a subtle way does add up over years and years.

I use one too and usually need replacement about every 18 months. I'm wondering how bad it is to swallow all the plastic. I guess most of it is too big and just moves through the digestive system as is, but I wonder if that grinding also creates particles that are small enough to stay around in the body.


18 months? Wow, mine has lasted 15 years so far. At this point the food chain is so contaminated with microplastics that the amount we are getting from our mouth guards is probably the least of our problems.


Add it to the massive pile of other sources of microplastics entering the body, including the air we breathe and food we eat. I’m inhaling microplastics as I write this comment because of my shirt, we’re all fucked!


I have gum regression. My ex wife was a dental assistant and screamed at me to get a mouth guard. I dragged my feet on it forever because it was $500. I tried an over the counter guard, but would just spit it out in my sleep. I finally caved in a couple of years ago once the regression became enough that I now have tooth sensitivity, and the regression has finally halted. However I’m stuck with what I’ve got, short of doing gum grafting surgery to transplant tissue around the more troublesome spots. It’s not fun or cheap.

Don’t mess around when it comes to your teeth. Floss, brush twice a day, drop bad habits like smoking and excessive soda drinking, and if you grind your teeth, get the damned mouth guard. It only gets more painful and expensive to fix (if even possible) if you ignore it.


Hey, you know what fixed my tooth sensitivity? Sucking on calcium carbonate tablets, like Tums. The calcium will enter the microtubules and remineralize the teeth.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S199179021...


Interesting idea, is it a permanent fix or do you have to keep doing it?


I sometimes have to come back to it, but rarely now, maybe once a year. But I changed many things about my oral and physical health so hard to say what is keeping them mineralized.


What other things did you change about oral health? I’ve been using probiotics and biofilm dissolvers to great success, but am always looking for more ways.


Molybdenum is crucial for teeth. In fact it is the forgotten mineral that helps fluoride work:

https://www.jmchemsci.com/article_160981_041959f44ef51db7464...

Zinc was big for my gums and to keep my immune system healthy enough to fight oral bacteria.


That’s great input, thank you!


This is such a clever hack that I'm curious what other clever hacks you came up with.


Understood. I’ll give it a shot and see how it goes, here’s to eating Ice Cream painfree.


FWIW if you want a "quick and easy" (not necessarily great/long term) solution, toothpastes like sensodyne do work pretty decently. I had very painful teeth as a kid, reducing (gum/tooth) inflammation + a few weeks of those tooth-sensitivity toothpaste has reduced my sensitivity permanently by a good bit, maybe 60%.


I already use Sensodyne protect and repair (stannous fluoride and potassium something, not Novamin) and while it does certainly help I just want a permanent fix because the sensitivity has gotten really, really tiresome.


Did your dentist give any suggestions? In my case I was irritating my gums while brushing, and switching to an ultra-soft toothbrush let me clean my teeth much better. I very much recommend asking your dentist and using an ultra-soft brush ("soft" brushes are average hard, the naming is atrocious).


Please let me know if it worked!


Will do, thank you.


Contraindicated for those who are disposed to Kidney stone formation


On the topic of toothpaste, I developed a reaction to SLS - Sodium Laurel Sulfate. That's when I switched to Sensodyne, because it doesn't contain SLS. For awhile, Sensodyne was a problem and I began using Baking Soda. Then returned to Sensodyne after a few weeks.

Before this sensitivity, someone asked if I whitened my teeth because they were whiter. Using an electric toothbrush changed the color of my teeth for the better.

A Water-Pik helps the gums rejuvenate as does flossing.


SLS - as well as being the thing that makes orange juice taste rank after you've brushed your teeth - also gives me huge mouth ulcers (canker sores). Sensodyne has been amazing for this.

Someone also mentioned a water pik is great for tonsililiths too.


I use MI Paste. I don't brush with it. Instead I place it in custom teeth whitening trays and let it sit for an hour or so. It's very helpful for reducing sensitivity!

I also have Curodont Protect, but haven't tried it yet.

Curious to hear others' experiences!


Since we are talking dental health, any insights into gingival recession? I think my gums have receded due to brushing them too hard over the years. You can’t tell unless you flip my gums back.


Oh boy that’s another beast I am trying to slay. All I keep hearing is that once gums start receding there’s no regenerating it, only stopping it from getting worse and I just have a hard time buying such a simple explanation. It could be hubris talking, I can’t really tell you one way or the other.

Uneducated Speculation: My theory is that the gums can regenerate and regain attachment loss but only in the right conditions -> in practice that would mean that they are not inflamed, and clean underneath the gum line (you can do that by flossing and getting a deep cleaning at a dentist if you need one), as well as doing your best to eliminate harmful bacteria that turn into calculus, and having a healthy diet.

The trickiest part is probably selectively eliminating the bad bacteria while retaining the good ones The mouth is full of both and mouthwashes like Listarine, or any Alcohol based ones are sledgehammers. Some washes are too harsh on the tissue itself too which I imagine impairs healing of any kind.


Xylitol does selectively inhibit some bad strains, and some oral probiotics (K2 BLIS, L. Sakei, B. Subtilis) are quite aggressive in killing off other species.

Might also be worth looking into all the substrates required for bone and connective tissue building, apart from the obvious (calcium, magnesium), e.g. silica, iron and copper.


Do you think the Xylitol in gum is good enough for that?


Probably yes? Avoid fructose for a while before and after because that allows bacteria to avoid xylitol uptake.


Research swishing Gastric Pentadecapeptide (BPC 157) around your mouth and through your teeth daily. Rsearch sems to support that it does seem to halt and sometimes reverse gingival recession.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30915550/


Have the same. I changed the way I brush. I used to push hard into the gum line.

Now what I do is more like sweeping; I use a regular toothbrush, and pull it over my teeth and gums at an angle to increase the sweeping area. This cleans much more of my month, so it’s less acidic, and this just feels better than what I was doing before. I also floss to break up biofilms in the gumline. Gums much happier.


If you have black triangles from gum recession, then I highly recommend TePe interdental brushes (or some other brand).

Neither a toothbrush nor floss is going to clear those areas effectively, and I noticed an immediate improvement in my gum inflammation levels when I started using them.


Begin by not brushing so hard. They can grow back if you stimulate the gum. Talk to your dentist.


I have been using Dr. Jen's Super Paste: https://drjennatural.com/products/dr-jen-super-paste-with-na...

I landed on this one out of all the N-Ha brands because it also has flouride. Also, it doesn't have SLS, which I feel good about.

I used to need Sensodyne to manage tooth sensitivity. I would go out of my way to buy Canadian or UK Sensodyne with Novamin, since the Novamin formulations aren't sold in the U.S. However, Jen's has eliminated the tooth sensitivity without needing a numbing agent like Sensodyne, which was surprising to me.

I've stuck with Jen's even though it's more expensive. I can't speak to whether it's strengthened my enamel appreciably, but my teeth feel much better.


> Also, it doesn't have SLS, which I feel good about.

Fwiw, the jury is still out regarding SLS.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10506142/


Anecdota: SLS always causes mouth sores aka canker sores for me. My inner cheeks and gums were covered in them before I figured it out. It was a very painful existence. Other people online reporting that cutting it out helped them saved me. I'm sure there are people who can tolerate SLS just fine, but I am not one of them, and the evidence has been clear cut enough for me that an inconclusive NIH study will do nothing to move the needle.

For anyone reading this suffering the same fate, benzocaine, which is commonly sold near the toothpastes, is an absolute lifesaver when you have a canker sore. It's sold under the name "Kanka" but any store brand alternatives should work just as well.


I'm curious too, so this is more a piggybacking question: Silver diamine is said to be the perfect cavity treatment, cheap, fast, and effective with the only downside being staining of the teeth. Does anyone on HN have silver diamine experiences to share?


When my oldest daughter began developing cavities in her baby molars, our dentist used silver diamine to stave off putting in a filling until she was older.

It was a stopgap measure; it only slowed the decay, not prevent or reverse it, and we had to switch to a three month checkup cycle to monitor the situation and reapply the silver diamine.


In the US and Germany they say there is no solid evidence suggesting that they keep what they promise. I personally use what seems to be an Italian brand called Biorepair and they clearly help with my tooth sensitivities(I have a bad habit of chewing on my nails when stressed).

Biorepair seems to have split into an Italian version and a German version with less active ingredients called Bioniq. The Italian versions seems to add xylitol.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=biorepair&i=hpc&crid=3BEZX0VR8DUD...


Relative bought this toothpaste recently and it looks sketchy AF. No ingredients listed anywhere (clearly violating EU regulations) plus snake oil name. I looked into company and they started making this toothpaste very recently so its not even like they have any experience.


I spoke with my dentist yesterday a bit about nano-Hydroxyapatite. It didn't sound like he had heard about products using it, which I find a little odd because he's the one that mentioned Mi Paste to me 5 years ago. But he's a pretty old guy, he may not be keeping up with the latest. He said chemically it makes sense, and it probably won't do any harm, but he couldn't back it up with any science other than Hydroxyapatite being a component of your enamel. He thought it was probably made from bovine bone, hydroxyapatite being a component of bones as well, but that was just a guess.

Seems like Mi Paste has the best science behind it, from what he is aware of. Which again, may not be the most recent.

He also recommended Pronamel toothpaste because it's got a lower grit, he said it was 46 where some toothpastes go up to 250. Just a more gentle daily process, if you keep up on your cleanings and everything.


To be fair I don't really have any real problems with my teeth apart from having had an overeager/greedy childhood dentist who put in a ton of fillings, making for a lifetime of occasionally having to redo one and needing 2 crowns.

I switched to Apagard about 8 months ago. My hygienist seemed happy about it. I like the fact that it's not overwhelmingly minty like most American toothpastes and doesn't foam up too much. I think if I manage to avoid needing new fillings or a redo for 6-7 years (about the frequency at which I need one) I would consider it a good switch.


Damn greedy dentists are some of worst kinds of people imo. It’s like in their head they swore to do harm, not the opposite.


Dentists don't even take the Hippocratic Oath in the first place.


Knowing what I know now about dentistry, I would only ever let a dentist drill a tooth where I can actually see decay. If I can't see it, and the X-ray looks dubious, I'd just outright refuse. And then I'd see another dentist.


Exactly. One time I skipped out in 2-3 years of cleaning while dithering on finding a dentist in the new area I moved to. She presented me with an estimate involving about 8 fillings. (I had specifically asked her to keep to the necessary ones.) Shocked, I went back to my old dentist for a second opinion. He told me most of them must be just replacing amalgams with porcelain because he couldn't find any actual new decay.


Use Sensodyne with novamin. You can get the Canadian version on ebay.


Does the canadian version say "thank you" after you brush with it ?


I started using Uncle Harry's, after having a sensitive crisis and being told by a dentist that I would need extensive crowns. That was... 7 years ago? Got one cavity done last year.

Surprised no one else had mentioned them. American, reputable, easy to find.


Had been using Apagard Premio n-Ha toothpaste since 2020. Ended up with 8 cavities in early 2023, largely due to two factors: consistently drinking one sugar free Red Bull in the morning, my critical error here was in drinking it SLOWLY over the course of one hour... no one ever taught me about the Stephan curve or why keeping your mouth in an acidic state could be disastrous for your teeth. The other factor was grinding my teeth at night, and a bite guard has somewhat helped there. Ideal would be not grinding but I don't have a magic solution there. Dentist prescribed fluoride toothpaste and MI paste. My tooth sensitivity is now gone.


Anegdotal, but my grinding went almost away when I stopped eating a few hours before sleep, started cardio exercising and in general reducing daily stress. My wife tells me it rarely comes back but with some really bad stress or drinking too much before, then snoring also hits.


While we're here, I'd like to point out that the medium chain triglycerides in coconut oil are AS EFFECTIVE of an antimicrobial as the most common prescription dental mouthwash Chlorhexidine [0].

[0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27891311/#:~:text=The%20stud....


Is the design of the study good? I don’t really know how to tell one way or the other.


Important things to check when it comes to experiments

- preregistration (it helps to counter fishing-for-signal bias, ie. maybe there were 1000 kids, and they only picked this 50 young girls, because this is where there's a big positive effect; also statistical significance levels, how much "sigma" is needed to say that the null hypothesis can be rejected)

- control group (here there's a nice direct comparison group, but there's no no-treatment group)

- blinding (did the kids know which one they were using? of course, but let's say it's not really relevant here, and they even mention that "no concealment was possible")

- power analysis (if we want to demonstrate a small effect we need a large sample size, power analysis can tell us was the experiment even capable of producing significant results or not, because it was underpowered? this requires an estimation of the effect size from the hypothesis) - basics causal inference sanity checks (are they making claims/conclusions that are actually supported by the data? is the experiment even capable of showing any kind of causal direction? due to the lack of no-treatment group we don't really know if the decrease in the numbers is due to weather or the treatments, so in this regard if we want to be very pedantic, it's a bit of a stretch to say that the treatments caused the decrease, but it's true that there was a significant decrease)

- stats check (they are using "Wilcoxon matched pairs signed ranks test" ... which is good for exactly this kind of "is there an effect at all" hypothesis testing (and arguably better than a t-test, because this is ranked data, not pulled from some nice normal distributions), basically it says that how likely it is that the day 0 and day 30 numbers are "really different", and we see that they got p-values smaller than 0.001, which indicates that it's very unlikely that they are from the same distribution; and then there's also a test for comparing the groups, but I haven't checked that)

Also, we can look at the full-text to see the numbers: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5109859/

it's interesting that there's a typo in deviation in Table 1, but not in the others, but there's also one in Whitney in Table 6 :)

all in all seems okay, though I think a nice chart would have been good with error bars and effect sizes (because then you can see that the treatment arms leave the null hypothesis region, and by how much, like with this one https://cdn.the-scientist.com/assets/articleNo/69229/iImg/43... )

of course, it's just one study ... https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/12/12/beware-the-man-of-one-...


Bought both apagard royal and apagard premio. I like the taste much more compared to classic ones, but I can't say I've seen some improvements in my teeth, looks the same as when I used Splat or Sesnsodyne protect&repair.

Also, consider that apagard usually doesn't have compounds that make your teeth less sensible like other toothpaste

Also, fyi- you should not wash your mouth after brushing, just spit the extra paste and wash after ~10-20 mins, this is valid for fluoride variations too

Anyway, just buy a tube (start with premio) and see how it goes


Apagard workded for me. Dentist noticed a difference, too.

I later added a xylitol rinse after brushing, and that seems to be doing even better.


Nice


I've been using a tooth paste with hydroxypatite for a little more than one year. Mostly for the enamel in my front teeth. I can see it works to some extend. The corrosion from the upper side of the teeth have stopped and I can see improvement of the already eroded side but I am talking about less than a milimiter. It is not a quick solution, and it requires dental higyne routinely. As for the price, I found that of you get the tooth paste in bulk it is more affordable.


https://www.apacare.com/Remineralising-Toothpaste/1001619

I’ve been using this toothpaste for years and it completely cured my tooth sensitivity issues. I buy it online from the Polish equivalent of Amazon. Looking at people’s reviews, the overwhelming majority are positive, but there are also some negative ones, so it’s definitely not a miracle product.


I have tried Boka, but ultimately decided to stop using it. Don’t really have enough data to recommend or not recommend it. I have used BioPure ozone ooth paste and that is excellent, just dfficult to get to the EU. https://store.biopureus.com/products/tooth-and-gum-paste?var...


You should also try Sensodyne repair and protect. I heard it's not available in the US, but the EU ones contain Novamin which really helps sensitive tooth.


My dentist recommended the same when he thought the issue was just sensitivity.


Is this the same as novamin? If not which might be better?


Novamin is Bioglass 45S5 or calcium sodium phosphosilicate[1] which is not the same thing.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioglass_45S5


I use apagard premio, came across it while doing research a couple of years ago (4-5) on nano hydroxyapatite. I've never really had problems with my adult teeth and I continue to not have problems, so at the very least, in my case, is not any worse than fluoride toothpaste. My dentist loves my teeth :D she told me whatever I'm doing, don't change a single thing.


There are spot treatments which general dentists do not have access to - which you must go to a periodontist for. My back molar had some bad sensitivity - and i could not risk loosing it before a major dental surgery - so i had this treatment done. These spot treatments (topical) last for 4-6 months. Going to a perio will cost you though (obviously)


Since no one's mentioned it yet - I had really sensitive gums for a while, and it was because I was very anemic, after the anemia was dealt with the sensitivity was gone. So if you have other symptoms of anemia also (fatigue, random dizziness, wanting to chew ice, etc) & haven't had it checked in a while maybe ask your doctor about it.


Can anemia be detected with the blood tests you get at annual check up?


CBC - Complete Blood Count is a common, routine test that detects anemia. https://www.healthline.com/health/anemia/anemia-blood-test#b...


Have tried Boka, Apagard, David’s, and Elims. I have come to much prefer the lack of foaming (I think due to SLS) and they’ve helped my sensitivity slightly. I would recommend them to anyone over fluoride toothpastes due to the possible neurotoxicity of the latter, especially for children.


Afaik boka's concentration of nhap is smaller compared to apagard royal and may offer less protection


I use a sensodyne toothpaste that has biomin in it. I'm not good about brushing and every once in a while the right side of my face hurts around my upper or lower molars or something and I'll remember to brush again and take an Aleve and it goes away within a day or two.


Do you have an electric toothbrush? It helps with timing and is generally considered to brush better.

But really, get back into the habit of brushing your teeth twice daily. It's one investment that pays of hugely in avoided trouble and costs.


Which sensodyne and which country is it from? Their product lines seems intentionally opaque.


Lots of Vitamin D and Vitamin K2 removed most if not all of my tooth sensitivity over the course of a month.

About 5 normal Vitamin D pills every few days so.

I was trying to treat something else out of desperation and noticed my tooth sensitivity more or less vanished.

Which makes sense when considering their role.

But as always, n=1.


This is really interesting to me because D helps in Calcium and Phosphate (building blocks of enamel) absorption, and K2 helps in using them to build bone. If they really were the only culprit in ridding you of your sensitivity than that means your body regenerated Enamel on its own. n=1 aside your comment gives me renewed faith in the human body.

What brand of K2 and Vitamin D did you use?


Bulk Supplements, but mostly because they're the cheapest per gram I can find. I don't think you need anything fancy per se.


Be careful with very high doses of vitamin D supplements if you have a family history of heart disease - over the long term it can increase calcium buildup elsewhere as well, which can damage the heart (amongst other things).


I found the same thing, taking K2 (the Carlson labs MK-4 version) with some D3 drops helped hugely.


When my teeth get too sensitive I swish with clove oil and that works well. I put a couple drops of oil in the bottom of a glass and fill it with about a cup of water.


Don't drink soda. Drink water.It will create a protective layer for few hours.


It cured my baldness.


Silly me, I should’ve looked in the mirror before making this thread.




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