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MS Paint Cocreator, a new AI-powered experience powered by DALL-E (windows.com)
119 points by tuanx5 on Oct 12, 2023 | hide | past | favorite | 36 comments



I have to say that it's beyond funny that Adobe is currently parading the same feature as the groundbreaking new thing in Photoshop and then Microsoft just goes and puts it in paint.


This is quite an exaggeration. Integrating DALL-E into MS Paint has basically no similarities to the vast gen AI feature set announced by Adobe.

- Firefly Vector model

- Generated templates

- Res-up upscaling for videos and gifs

- Fast-fill for videos

- Distractor removal

- Individual item replacement

Too many to mention. Not to say OpenAI/MS are not capable of building similar features. Just that Adobe's tools are incomparably more advanced than integrating a prompt into MS Paint.


Technically I don't doubt a single word you say, you're clearly familiar with the matter and I'm not. But as a layman standing on the sidelines the two look the same.


And quite crucially, Adobe generative AI is trained on their commercial stock photos so the copyright situation is much less risky.


Everybody’s too concerned about copyright for training data, no one’s concerned enough that the outputs are considered non-copyrightable.

$50mm pre-product valuations for startups producing 3D assets for games via prompting a foundation model.

Zero due diligence on the U.S. copyright office’s stance that every asset those companies generate will be open to reuse.


I assume any tweaks to the assets and the way they’re put together will still be copyrightable though


Maybe, depends on the threshold for human creativity, which is still in flux.

You could copyright the underlying character maybe. But its a major headache for these companies and a symptom of the broader fact that copyright needs legislative reform, not attempting to shoehorn AI into the current law.


Is this in regards to established legal protections or in regards to ethics?

I am not sure that legal protections are guaranteed with using adobe AI, it could be better censored and so less risky(?), but I've not looked into that much yet.

As far as ethics go, I'm not sure that the photographers or artists or people in the stock photos had intended to give rights to remix their work using AI for all sorts of unforeseen uses.. and not just taking a person and putting their face in a pic / advert about [insert terrible thing here] - but also change their expression ..


Looks like the pricing model is different. The linked article only mentions "50 credits" with no further details, but this page[1] says it's $15 for 115 credits. In comparison, Adobe's Firefly appears to be 25 credits per month for free or $4.99 for 100[2]. But I guess users are already paying a monthly subscription fee to use Adobe products, so maybe Paint comes out to be cheaper.

[1] https://openai.com/blog/dall-e-now-available-in-beta

[2] https://www.adobe.com/sensei/generative-ai/firefly.html


It would be such a win for consumers if corporations weren’t allowed to just make up some currency and hide the true cost behind some translation layer and instead had to advertise the actual cost in dollars up front.

I get that completely outlawing the idea of credits would remove the ability to dynamically change the cost of computing for new purchases while still retaining computing units for people who have already bought them, so maybe credits themselves as a concept could stick around. But using them in advertising copy should not be allowed without providing the calculated dollar equivalent right alongside of them


"How can we get more people to use our AI offerings?"

"Shove it into MSPaint!"

I can't wait for Clippy2 inside notepad.


Sorry, but your reply is very misleading - you're linking the blog post of the release of the original DALL-E through OpenAI's own website (which was in 2022 - centuries ago by the current AI trends). The one integrated in Paint is DALL-E 3, and there's no separate pricing for it yet:

- It's available to most ChatGPT plus subscribers (very soon to be all of them), the subscription costs the same as it did before

- It's available for free in Bing Image Creator, with optional "boosts" that speed up generation (more can be redeemed with Microsoft Rewards)

- And now it's available in Paint as a part of their Windows Copilot update, for which they have not talked about pricing at all (Microsoft 365 Copilot has pricing, but it provides different services and is meant for companies)


The most basic app getting a most advanced feature.


Well they removed all paint "features" so they desperately need a new one.

It seems that the only intelligence left at Microsoft is the artificial one.


>When you use Paint Cocreator, we apply content filtering and have other safeguards in place to prevent the generation of images that may be harmful, offensive, or inappropriate, and we are continuing to optimize how Paint Cocreator works based on real-world usage and feedback.

If it's anything like their current Dall-E 3 filtering, the only things you will be able to generate without triggering any warnings or filters are inert landscapes


The puritanical snowflake nanny state needs to die.


This is not the nanny state, it's just PR concerns. They don't want to be associated with headlines like "FBI Finds Child Porn Images Generated by Microsoft's AI".


PR concerns about what puritans will think. Puritans love a nanny state with the entire modicum of affection their shrivelled black hearts can muster.

No, I'm not defending CSAM or AI simulacra of it. Fusing the medium with the censor is an abomination. It's Cocreator wagging the finger today, tomorrow it's Clippy popping up to tell me that what it thinks I might be making is too objectional for me to continue making it.


> PR concerns about what puritans will think.

Not because they are afraid of regulation, but because they want to lobby for anti-competitive regulations using "safety" as the premise.


"It looks like you're writing a threatening letter! :) " - clippy, probably


The difference probably is the hardware it runs on.

It feels like the same argument about hosting files: if you provide a service then you're responsible for what happens in it.

There's plenty of self hosted image generators without any guardrails whatsoever if you're so inclined. Browse around https://civitai.com/ for a bit you'll quickly see the implications


Please tell my why this prompt is blocked by Bing's image creator then: "view from inside a shark's mouth as it hunts fish" but "view from inside a shark's mouth as it looks for fish" is fine.

A shark hunting is over the line but it can look for fish fine?


What’s the state got to do with it? This is all markets.


It’s funny how most of us have never run into a single case of these AI tools censoring us, and others seem to get constantly censored for doing nothing wrong.


n=1 but I find I'm consistently censored trying to generate images of people, but drawings, animals and objects are generally fine so perhaps that's the difference.

Try "a super hero asleep on the couch, under a blanket" in dalle-3 and see what you get, I get zilch no matter how many times I run it, this is clearly unsafe content apparently.


I've found the AI generally more forgiving on anything "art". This lets you get away with things like a nip slip on a statue or provocative situations in a painting for instance. The second you try and make it in a "realistic" setting though, you get the dog or worse.


Strange, that query worked fine for me on dalle-3.


Do they mention anywhere what DALL-E version is being used? I have a suspicion it's not DALL-E 3 but happy to be proven wrong.


Everything may be harmful, offensive or inappropriate to someone...


"You will get an email notification when you are in the preview, and we will give you 50 credits to get started. Each credit lets you generate a new set of images."

Not even free generations while it's in Beta? Damn.


For amusement purposes, they should have never changed the old ms paint from windows XP and just added advanced AI to it. Same with clippy


When I just read the title, I read really hoping it was xp or 7 ms paint with Ai lol


It's the funniest juxtaposition of features ever.


Who knew MS Paint would still be in the running after all these year?


It seems to me that MS is ruining the original simplicity and charm of Paint.


Paint need internet now ? Does the prompt is sent to Microsoft or OpenAI ?




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