I downvoted this because you're ignoring iMessage. The fact that Apple purposefully not only gives Android users a shitty experience when communicating with iOS users, but also ensures that the presence of an Android user can break the experience for everyone else in a group chat (e.g. degraded videos now for everyone) in iMessage is a blatant attempt to abuse their monopoly power (in the US at least where iMessage dominates). I've been an Android user for years and am reluctantly seriously considering getting an iPhone solely because my friends bitch at me all the time when I'm in a group chat.
RCS is a half baked implementation from google; the company that has killed every single chat app they've released. It's a spec that relies on carrier implementation of any feature and if actually implemented by a majority would immediately go the way of SMS and people would cry for a new better spec in a few years. We have seen all of this before and the push for RCS from google is propaganda because iMessage is effective for iOS lock-in and Apple sales. Users have the freedom to install any third party chat app and use that if they don't like iMessage.
> Even if you could snap your fingers and magically roll out RCS to every device, you wouldn't actually create a competitive messaging solution. Being a standard created in 2008 means RCS has standards from 2008, and it's lacking things you would want from a modern messaging service, like end-to-end encryption. The Google Messenger strategy strangely insists on using RCS as the base protocol, but the service also keeps trying to build features on top of it that kick in when both users are on Google Messages.
RCS is not a consumer benefit: RCS gives strange powers to the carrier that your phone connects to (as opposed to the company you contract with; i.e. your mobile carrier), powers over your camera, microphone, radio, power levels, and motion sensors. I don't care if T-Mobile can offer "true" 4G video calling with it with other T-mobile customers. Nobody fucking wants that.
Google deciding to partner with American Telcos and the American Government to get RCS standardized has confused you into thinking Apple did something wrong, or is continuing to do something wrong by not adopting Google's RCS (and paying Google's license fees for RCS, integrating with every carrier, and so on) instead of Google paying Apple for iMessage (and paying Apple's license fees for iMessage). This isn't your fault, you're just proof that Google's advertising is working and that Google is really good at advertising and marketing.
> has confused you into thinking Apple did something wrong, or is continuing to do something wrong by not adopting Google's RCS (and paying Google's license fees for RCS, integrating with every carrier, and so on) instead of Google paying Apple for iMessage (and paying Apple's license fees for iMessage). This isn't your fault, you're just proof that Google's advertising is working and that Google is really good at advertising and marketing.
Sorry to be blunt, and I realize this may not be in-tune with HN guidelines, but seriously, fuck off, because this style of passive aggressive "I'm sorry little simpleton, it's not your fault for being so simple" comment deserves nothing better than a fuck off. Especially since there are parts of your message that make it clear that you don't know what you're talking about, e.g. Google doesn't receive any license fees for RCS.
I know exactly what the issues, and history, are. I don't deny that Google is pushing this for selfish reasons. At the end of the day Apple is intent on keeping their iMessage lock in because it essentially shames other people (especially teenagers and young people) into getting an iPhone.
I don't think neither Apple's nor Google's motivations are "more pure", but one is in favor of interoperability regardless of device (which was supposed to be the entire purpose of the Internet), while another favors device exclusivity.
I think a lot of Android manufacturers would be willing to pay Apple for iMessage access/licensing. I strongly doubt that Apple would be willing to sell that without the EU forcing them to.
> I think a lot of Android manufacturers would be willing to pay Apple for iMessage access/licensing.
I think you overestimate the markup Android manufacturers make, and underestimate what Google makes.
> I strongly doubt that Apple would be willing to sell that without the EU forcing them to.
You would be wrong! Apple already allows programmatic access to iMessage (call centers can dial/message directly with it including number-fronting, do apps, etc), so it really is just a matter of the fact that Google isn't willing to pay.
> The fact that Apple purposefully not only gives Android users a shitty experience when communicating with iOS users
Because it’s an iOS-to-iOS product feature. Because its functionality is predicated on Apple Hardware features. If you want iOS features, buy an iOS device.
The green bubbles break Apple's accessibility guidelines - making it more difficult to read (especially for visually impaired users). The better option is switching to Signal, but some people have strange hangups.
The opposite is true in the US. I'd guess that 95%+ of iOS users in the US text primarily on iMessage (excluding those who are primarily texting international contacts).
I'm fact, that's probably the biggest reason I think Apple has been able to abuse their iMessage stance for so long: the EU has been far stronger at regulating compatibility and interoperability (we can thank the EU for the fact that we can finally get rid of tons of dongles), but I think they've been less vigilant about iMessage solely because it's much less of a factor in Europe.
It would be pretty hard to argue that iMessage has a market domineering position in Europe and therefore not appropriate for the EU to regulate it.
That being said, I hope that once the other services are forced to interop apple will have no choice than to do the same.
It's probably hard to imagine in the US but people here absolutely will abandon iMessage over this. Their market position is weak enough that none of my family/friends/acquaintances who own an iPhone has even considered asking for anything but the "default" aka WhatsApp.
Nothing prevents Apple from offering a non interoperable format in addition to the interoperable one. For example, offer both MIMI and Apple iMessage protocols in the iMessage app.
And it sucks so horribly to the point that it's nearly unusable in modern group chats (or, rather, MMS is the protocol that's used for group chats and that one also sucks horribly).
I suggest you stop drinking the Google Koolaid, they’re not being honest.
> The fact that Apple purposefully not only gives Android users a shitty experience when communicating with iOS users
You mean utilizing the standardized SMS and MMS protocols?
How is that purposeful? Just because they refuse to rollout iMessage on Android?
> but also ensures that the presence of an Android user can break the experience for everyone else in a group chat (e.g. degraded videos now for everyone) in iMessage
Again, they switch to SMS/MMS to be compatible with Android devices. Video quality (and photo quality for the master) can only be as good as the limitations of MMS.
Contrary to what Google implies, Apple isn’t doing something on purpose to make videos shitty, the MMS protocol simply can’t handle original quality photos.
> is a blatant attempt to abuse their monopoly power (in the US at least where iMessage dominates)
No, a blatant attempt at abusing a monopoly power would be them saying they drop support for SMS and MMS so you can’t text to Android users anymore because people keep repeating nonsense talking points fed by Google so they’d rather just not deal with the headache.
There is no “RCS”, not as a working standard anyways.
The BS Google is peddling is their proprietary flavor of RCS that runs on their Jibe servers, Google’s own attempt at iMessage if you will.
Google wants Apple to adopt “G iMessage” or at the very least hook Apple’s iMessage into Google’s proprietary “RCS” implementation, presumably in part to get a whiff of all the data that would be routed through their servers.
We know this based on slew of things:
1. Half of the features listed on that propaganda website aren’t part of the RCS “standard”, they are however part of Google’s proprietary RCS implementation. So it stands to reason that Google is talking about their proprietary RCS solution
2. Google is using “RCS” as a brand name, when they talk about “RCS” they talk about their proprietary flavor of RCS, similar to how Apple uses the brand “iMessage”[0]
3. Pretty much all of the “RCS” out in the world is Google’s proprietary RCS implementation that runs on Jobe servers.
The original RCS standard was conceived by the GSMA (its full members being carriers) intended to be implemented at the carrier level.
Carriers however had no appetite of implementing it so now what passes as “RCS” is almost exclusively run by Google.
This is either done via the Google branded Messaging app or with a white label construction bearing the logo of carriers and manufacturers via either a direct relationship with Jibe or one of the middlemen[1] that sell Jibe’s services.
This means that globally, whether offered by an OEM or carrier, close to all “RCS” offered is just Google’s proprietary implementation of RCS.
The only thing stopping Google from having a true monopoly on texting services is the fact that Apple refuses to run the iMessage network through Google’s Jibe service.
If what is being touted as RCS would’ve been a true standard like SMS or MMS then I could see Apple adopting it as a fallback option like they already do with SMS and MMS, but since the handful of specs that are cobbled together as a “standard” are hardly any better than those two ancient standards and since what Google is pushing for is essentially Apple adopting Google’s own iMessage, I don’t see it ever happening.
This will continue to be a problem as long as infinite throwaway accounts are permissible. "Assume good faith" falls apart when the commenter is so obviously lying for fake internet points. Mods are asleep.
Just be careful getting anything that you barely use (I.e., less risk of breaking). Since we are locked to the AppStore, older iOS products can’t even download certain apps and there isn’t a way to get a previous app version that works with your product.
Simple apps like YouTube require iOS 14+. If you didn’t download before or had to factory reset once the app version updates, you are SoL.
Apple doesn't even need to make an Android version of iMessage, they just need to support RCS instead of SMS/MMS: https://www.android.com/get-the-message/