Personal life hacks:

1) All the folks telling you that diet and exercise will magically make things better are actually right in micro scale. (You can't pushup your way out of being a salaryman but it is very hard to not get a QOL boost from reguar exercise.) Blew my mind to experience this since I had always assumed it was social signaling.

2) Your startup will always send signals that it really needs you. Consider making a commitment to maintaining family/friendship/church/whatever ties so that you can maintain perspective on how much the bat signal going off really matters.

3) You'll tend to end up like the folks you hang around with. If you steep yourself 100% in startup culture, you'll tend to pick up its cultural pathologies. I mean, do your five closest friends all overwork? That might be why seeing half days off as a luxury item became your new normal. Consider reconnecting with old friends or broadening your social circle.

These signals are dangerous, because you can always find something that needs to be done. In fact, those somethings almost always find you, and it's hard not to deal with things as they come to you, even if that means from when you finish supper until two hours after you should be in bed.

Most of those things don't need your attention, at least not immediately. Set yourself working hours, stick to them. The mantra you're looking for is "quality (of work) over quantity (of time)". If you can't get everything you think you should do in 40 hours (or 50, or 60, but whatever number you set yourself) a week, take a moment and see what tasks or responsibilities are wasting your time.

My old boss would come in on evenings and weekends to solder PCBs when we'd get first prototypes in (which wasn't his responsability). He'd throw away an evening with his family and a good night's sleep, and gain what? The prototype could be handed on to the next person a couple hours sooner the next day, out of a multi-month production schedule. (Additionally, it's easier to make mistakes when you're tired or rushed, he was not as suited to do the work as I was, and I missed the opportunity to familiarize myself with the prototype I would be debugging later.)

Don't become so attuned to your company's needs (wants) that you miss out on your personal life or reduce your own value to the company.

Basically, that experiment you are running on the weekend - so you can get that critical data a few days quicker - will invariably fail to produce any data at all. It is doomed before you start. We were never sure if it was due to tiredness and fatigue, your mind subconsciously sabotaging you or the angry science gods.

But it never worked. You were guaranteed to waste your weekend doing something that had to be repeated on Monday.

So, I'm agreeing with patrickyeon. Is soldering that PCB board really important right now? Do you really need to run that experiment this weekend?

edit: Ok, well prominently there's the "zero defect mentality" that was supposedly eradicated from the military in the past 20 or 30 years but is still very much present. Obviously this varies from command to command, but... anyway that's probably more big-picture than you're thinking of.

One small way (small as in every day life for people not big Marine Corps issues) is this notion I'd guess I'd describe as "maximal accountability" for your actions. Which is good up to a point but when coupled with the zero-defect thing, tthen suddenly you're living a life where there's no such thing as "not a big deal."

This also translates into being treated like a child when you're not in a combat zone, with curfews, checking in, signing in and out on your own personal time, and so forth. I get why it happens but as a 30-year-old guy when I got out, I was getting a little too old to be THAT accountable to someone else.

Ironically, when it came to my professional life as a Marine (all easily verifiable btw if you google my name in case you're wondering if I'm another poser) there was no simpler time than being in Iraq or afloat. Bullshit levels were at a minimum because there were real things to accomplish. That's coincidentally why I love being a programmer. :)

It can be hard to overcome the inertia if you haven't exercised in a while, but it's ALWAYS worth the time.

Get enough sleep. This should be #1 really - it's more important than exercise, but exercising helps you sleep. Find a way to get 8 hours a day for the foreseeable future and make it a priority. There are lots of ways to deal with insomnia, feel free to email me (see profile).

Eat right - good food, fruit & vegetables, nuts, the usual. Don't overeat, go hungry, or stuff yourself on junk food & stimulants.

Finally, make regular plans to do social/physical activities and commit to having the REST OF THE DAY off, whether it's on a weekend or a weekday evening. Your worries (and gadgets, emails, etc) should be shut off and locked away until you wake up the next morning.

cofounder: Hey Ed, it's 6:30. Finish up. Let's go next door and get a beer.

edw519: No, I have to finish <Task X>.

cofounder: Do that later. Have a beer with me.

edw519: No, I have to finish this now.

cofounder: Have a beer with me, then do that tomorrow.

edw519: No, this has to be finished tonight.

cofounder: Then have a beer with me, and come back after the beer and finish it tonight.

edw519: No, I have to finish it first.

cofounder: If you have a beer with me and don't finish that, how will our Annual Report be different?

edw519: What?

cofounder: You heard me. If you have a beer with me and don't finish that tonight, how will our Annual Report be different?

edw519: I don't understand.

cofounder: Listen one more time and answer the fucking question! If you have a beer with me and don't finish that tonight, how will our Annual Report be different?

edw519: It won't be.

cofounder: Good. Then let's have that beer now. OK?

edw519: OK.

Seriously though, that is the mindset you have to take (there are exceptions) otherwise you'll gradually start to resent everything you've worked for.

me2: Okay!

every night

But that's just me; I'm old :-)

Unless you were making a joke which totally flew past me...

Especially with people they communicate and interact with in an office environment. The IM 'text line' tends to not limit typical expressive communication as much as you would think (even without smileys).

Anyway... begone "it's fake i can tell by the pixels".

He may not have copied a literal transcript from his IM logs, but you get the fucking point.

However, that doesn't mean that consuming moderate amounts of alcohol or caffeine will kill you. When people look at all-cause mortality data (here's one example picked at random from Google http://ukpmc.ac.uk/abstract/MED/8628131/reload=0;jsessionid=... , I've seen several studies that come to more or less the same conclusions), they find that moderate drinking (1-2 drinks per day for men, 1 drink per day for women), is associated with lower all-cause mortality than abstaining. And I've seen studies that show that this effect is even present if you control for factors that may be correlated with abstention, such as poverty (can't afford alcohol), or previous alcoholism that may have had health effects (some people are teetotalers because they have previously had problems with alcohol, so they may have had any ill effects outside of the study period).

Don't assume that just because something is neurotoxic in high doses means that it's bad in low doses as well. There are many things that can kill you if you take too much, but are healthy in moderation.

Nicotine has only been found to be neurotoxic in adolescents or in extremely high doses. At the normal rate of consumption, it acts as an anti-oxidant and has a protective effect on the brain.

That study demonstrates an association and does not suggest one way or the other that drinking is in any way healthy. What if people who choose to drink in moderation just happen to be more likely to do everything else in moderation too? What if people who choose to abstain are more likely to fall into extremes and affect their life span that way? What if someone who moderates everything else and chooses not to drink is healthier than the moderate drinkers?

On the subject of low doses being completely safe, from a link someone else provided (http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa53.htm):

>...some deficits are possible even in people who are not heavy drinkers.

Involuntary movements are caused by excess dopamine and are seen in people who use too much L-Dopa (dopamine precursor) for extended periods of time, for example. Interestingly, this effect is blocked when co-administering and NMDA antagonist. Even more interestingly, NMDA antagonists have been observed to reduce/prevent stimulant tolerance. All of this suggests that it's possible that involuntary movements are simply dopamine deficiencies (e.g. in the case of L-Dopa, dopamine receptors down-regulate too much).

Caffeine is known to release significant amounts of dopamine. Over a period of time, this will down-regulate dopamine receptors.

> Nicotine has only been found to be neurotoxic in adolescents or in extremely high doses. At the normal rate of consumption, it acts as an anti-oxidant and has a protective effect on the brain.

That's exactly my point. Just because something is a neurotoxin for some animals, or at extremely high doses, does not mean that it's actually dangerous. I wasn't trying to make caffeine or nicotine sound dangerous; I was pointing out that looking at some research, seeing "neurotoxic", and being scared is a bad way of approaching science.

Obviously, there are dangers in alcohol consumption. Alcohol has a fairly narrow range between the effective dose (the dose at which you start noticing any effects), and a dangerous dose. There are the obvious cognitive impairments while you are drinking, and some slight longer term impairment (that is much worse for heavy drinkers, and even worse for people who were heavy drinkers and then quit). But there are also advantages. There are some physical advantages to alcohol consumption, related to heart disease. There are the obvious social advantages, which many people cite as the reason they drink. And looking at all-cause mortality, the advantages appear to outweigh the disadvantages, at least for moderate drinkers.

> What if people who choose to drink in moderation just happen to be more likely to do everything else in moderation too? What if people who choose to abstain are more likely to fall into extremes and affect their life span that way? What if someone who moderates everything else and chooses not to drink is healthier than the moderate drinkers?

There is also this study: http://while-science-sleeps.com/pdf/628.pdf which discusses the weaknesses in previous studies, and attempts to correct for them. They look at a quite wide range of potential factors that might be correlated with abstention and increase mortality. The findings are somewhat surprising: in this study, even heavy drinkers had a lower mortality rate than teetotalers. And these effect were still present, though diminished, even once they controlled by many compounding factors.

It does admit that:

> In fact, in tests of potential covariates, we found among these older adults that at baseline, abstainers were significantly more likely to have had prior drinking problems, to be obese, and to smoke cigarettes than moderate drinkers and significantly higher than moderate drinkers on health problems, depressive symptoms, and avoidance coping. Moreover, at baseline, abstainers were significantly lower than moderate drinkers on SES, physical activity, number of close friends, and quality of friend support and significantly less likely to be married than moderate drinkers. Moreover, all of these covariates significantly predicted mortality.

However, it goes on to state:

> Controlling for age and gender, all eleven additional covariates, and the gender-marital status and gender-avoidance coping interactions in the Cox proportional hazards regression analysis reduced the 20-year mortality risk for abstainers compared to moderate drinkers. After including all covariates, the relative mortality risk for abstainers compared to moderate drinkers dropped by close to one-third and approached that of heavy drinkers. However, even after adjusting for all covariates, abstainers and heavy drinkers continued to show increased mortality risks of 49 and 42%, respectively, compared to moderate drinkers. After adjusting for all covariates, the relative risk for light drinkers compared to moderate drinkers was no longer significant.

Now, this study was for older adults (who were 55 to 65 at the beginning of the 20 year study). It discusses in some detail the weaknesses that it has, such as the possibility that it has selected for people who have survived higher levels of drinking. However, it did a very good job of controlling for a lot of compounding factors; and it still found that people who drank had lower mortality rates than people who abstained.

Can you provide links or elaborate on this? I'm curious.

Of course it's a neurotoxin, the whole point is that it messes up the way your brain operates in a way that happens to be enjoyable.

Anyway there are various neuroprotectants you can take to reduce the amount of brain damage. Although if you are drinking in moderation it isn't much of an issue because your brain won't be getting its energy from the alcohol to begin with.

That said, alcohol is pretty terrible for you in general, and it definitely isn't a good idea if you're depressed because it causes inflammation, among other things.

Then "they" are proffering dangerous medical mis-advice that you should probably not be repeating on a forum.

Also, saying that alcohol is even more harmful than cocaine and that you should probably avoid it (well I sarcastically said you should drink it, but no one would interpret the above post as a recommendation for alcohol) is providing very safe medical advice. I don't see how you got me recommending black market recreational cocaine use from my previous post. If that's how it came across, I'd like to make it clear I do not endorse cocaine use either.

* Whether or not the US's drug policies are more harmful than the drug itself is a totally different question.

As for whether or not the typical recreational dose is moderate or high, I have met several people who have admitted to consuming cocaine recreationally at least once, and all of them reported snorting a relatively low amount of powder. That's consistent with what I remember the WHO report saying is somewhat toxic but not likely a big concern if not done frequently. It emphasized that chronic users and users of large doses almost invariably suffer from huge health problems. I don't advocate recreational drug use, let alone powerful stimulates. All I advocated in the original post was that alcohol is awful for you and should probably be avoided. Please stop changing my words.

Who said anything about it being good for you? Neither you nor I, as far as I know.

In your original post, you said, "They say drinking enough to feel drunk is much worse for your long-term health than a moderate dose of recreational powder cocaine."

You then followed it up with "The they was the World Health Organization."

So I don't think it's unfair to read that as you saying: "The World Health Organization say drinking enough to feel drunk is much worse for your long-term health than a moderate dose of recreational powder cocaine."

I then reviewed your source and concluded, "I don't think that what you've posted really supports your claim that the WHO finds recreational cocaine usage to be less hazardous than drinking enough to get drunk."

That's because he couldn't provide the source he was thinking of. The source he did post demonstrates why he couldn't find it.

>I can't actually find the article, but http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jun/13/bad-scie.... suggests it was suppressed by the U.S. government, so I must have read a leaked copy that I can't find anymore.

You said I gave "dangerous medical mis-advice" and someone, who I assumed was you, flagged my post. Assuming you didn't think the suggestion of not drinking was dangerous, what could you have meant besides interpreting my post as an endorsement of cocaine use? Either you keep changing what you're saying, or I've been misinterpreting each of your posts. I'm legitimately confused now.

> I then reviewed your source and concluded, "I don't think that what you've posted really supports your claim that the WHO finds recreational cocaine usage to be less hazardous than drinking enough to get drunk."

I recall them explicitly making that claim, as I referenced in my original post. Could the source I originally read have been a forgery and the Guardian made the same mistake? Yes. I don't think that's the case, but it could be. But I've definitely come across in other sources (that I guess could have gotten their information from the same unofficial WHO document, but I think they were sources that had citations, so that shouldn't be the case) the same general conclusion that powder cocaine isn't nearly as harmful as alcohol or opiates unless you take large enough doses or do it enough to develop a dependency.

The scary thing here is that basically no one in the U.S., who isn't a teenager / in college, will openly come out and say to most people, "I smoke marijuana", so anyone who is remotely normal / has a job, etc will only tell other people whom they know also smoke marijuana (even if just occasionally), because otherwise they are ostracized. Therefore, we have this skewed perception where only people who are either too close to someone to hide it (such as a son / daughter) or there life is messed up in such a way that its obvious / they don't care about hiding it are the ones that these people can point to and say "they use marijuana" as any "normal" person who uses it will never admit to it around someone who they know is against it or even neutral / not in favor and may actually go to great lengths to hide it as the repercussions can be extremely severe. If you live in the wrong state, you can quickly lose your job, etc very fast if word gets out.

:)

I wonder if there's a threshold at which the toxicity starts or if it's just an inherent quality of alcohol just as the high from huffing paint is an integral part of the brain damage that it causes.

Pretending it's not a drug is certainly an interesting perspective considering that it's one of the harder drugs out there.

If anything, people probably drink less these days.

Ever had moonshine? The old saying "it'll make ya go blind" is based on the improper distilling by amateur moonshiners, but not because of the equipment they use. Methanol has a lower boiling point than ethanol and as such will vaporize first, but some distillers don't remove this and other harmful compounds properly. Methanol is incredibly damaging to the optic nerve, so even in small amounts it can destroy eyesight over a period of time.

If you really want to be freaked out, read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_consumption_and_health

I can't find any good references right now, but it seems that a lot of the widespread idea that it's easy to screw up amateur alcohol fermentation is probably a lie that was spread in support of strict regulation on such activities.

Despite how it may seem there's no chance your company will die or suffer any irreparable harm in a week. Just do it.

When you come back have a discussion with your co-founders. Try to talk through (calmly and without resentment) the problems you see. Focus on finding the best solutions to the problems. Don't get into arguments about the past. Everything before is water under the bridge. You will have to accept that certain things probably can't be fixed, and that's okay. Fix the things that hinder your company's ability to succeed.

Also, make sure you sleep enough every day. Don't skimp on sleep at all. Nothing will make you burn out faster than chronic sleep deprivation. Everyone can get 8+ hours of sleep per night if they make it a priority.

There are different kinds of meditation, but I am talking about mindfulness meditation in the Buddhist tradition. When people hear the word meditation, they often associate it with some kind of new age non-sense. This kind of meditation has nothing to do with that. It also does not require to convert to Buddhism either. If you are interested I would recommend the book Mindfullness in Plain English. It's also available for free as an e-book on the internet.

Aside from it being a form of moving meditation for the mind, it helps the body, especially for a tech nerd. I began studying Tai Chi, I came near burnout partly because my body was always in a similar posture all week. I developed RSI in my neck and my shoulder from constantly tensing muscles to use a mouse or trackpad. If I worked through a weekend, or two in a row, then I might spend 20 or 30 days in a row with my shoulder tight. Tai Chi is not intense exercise, but it moves all of your muscles through their full range of motion. Simply having that "program" that I can run with my body eliminated my RSI. Even though I still have to spend way too much time at the keyboard.

The everyday experience closest to meditation is probably when you're in the zone while doing something athletic.

Or put it another way: If you taking 1 week vacation to heal your spirits leads to the demise of the company, it means that it wasn't viable in the first place. Is what you've built really that fragile that it can't take a breather for one single week? I doubt it.

Take at least a week off, and come back rejuvenated. You're worth more to your company well-rested and in the right frame of mind rather than burnt out and ineffective.

There is only one working solution. Get professional help.

If your servers crash - you ask an expert. If your car makes funny noises - you go to a garage, were there are professionals. If you have an infection - you consult an M.D.

But we tend to ignore psychological conditions and we tend to ask others (amateurs) for an opinion. But this is really nothing more than a physical illness in respect to the way it has to be treated - by an expert.

So do yourself a favor and ask your favorite search-engine for professionals, that know their stuff, when it comes to burnout. And then make an appointment. You are no good to your startup, if it crashes around you, because you crash and burn. You are no help to anybody, if your condition affects your work (and it will do that soon).

You have the responsibility for everybody, who's paycheck depends on the success of your startup - and that depends on your well being.

And: You owe it to yourself to heal.

just my two cents

Consult your primary care physician first. They are best equipped to diagnose somatic problems and will refer you out to a psychiatrist once you check out okay physically.

I for a couple of years dealt with depression and just being damn tired all the time. I actually had to go to a few doctors before I found one that was able to help me.

Turns out I had a goddamn tumor in my parathyroid gland. I'll paraphrase a bit of Dr. House, "unsquint [sic] your eyes when you take a look at your labs"

In my opinion you don't want to end up with somebody who automatically assumes it takes a complete life history and hypnotherapy with childhood regression over 10 years to deal with depression, or who assumes that the first approach should be medication, for instance, when your symptoms don't indicate a need for it.

A book like David Burns' "Feeling Good" is enough to give you quick insight (by taking the Burns Depression Checklist and explaining one therapy that has been demonstrated as effective) without turning you into a hypochondriac (the idea isn't to make excuses for not seeing a professional because you're researching, or to make excuses for why you're "incurable").

As a counter-counter argument, the truth is in the middle. There's a lot of collective wisdom and knowledge on these subjects and a lot which can only be discovered independently. A hybrid approach is head and shoulders above either one in isolation.

I've experienced burnout a number of times in personal and professional contexts and I think nearing 30, I've got a pretty good handle on myself finally.

1. You can ALWAYS and should ALWAYS talk to SOMEONE. My advice is find a great therapist. If you can't afford one, you need to find a friend, confidant, or family member that's away from the action. Talk through things and see if you can wrap your head around what's bothering you.

2. Exercise. Seriously. Exercise helps sleeps, weight loss, anxiety, depression, add--it's a pretty awesome medication. Read "Spark" by John Ratey.

3. Sleep. The times in my life I've felt most burnt out corresponded with awful sleeping patterns. (also see 2)

4. Reflect. After trying to talk through things and getting your body back on track think about your work. Are you happy doing what you're doing? Do you want to do something else? (some might recommend doing this first--I wouldn't; only because in my judgment I've made decisions I regretted because I felt like I wasn't in the right place--not because I really didn't like the opportunity)

This is obviously a reader's digest version, but it took me probably 5 or 6 iterations before I could identify, prevent (or treat) my burnout.

I had a particularly rough Friday last week and so I decided to skip coming home in favor of a long bike ride.

I was fully expecting to go home, mope around, and fall asleep. Instead I came home - clear headed - and had a great weekend.

--

I'd also recommend biking as a great form of exercise. Personally I don't like the gym, memberships can get kind of pricy, and for some reason I always feel uncomfortable at a gym.

Biking however gives you access to tons of free trails, it's great for your cardiovascular system (you won't get ripped biking, but you will feel fantastic.)

Plus being out on a scenic trail does wonders for your mental health.

Just my $0.02

Reflect, but do not ruminate. Rumination (going endlessly in circles in your mind in a bad-thoughts-feedback-loop) goes with depression / mood disorders. To help with reflection, write down what weighs on your mind and analyze it.

Also, try to write about how everything would be if it went perfectly well. This way, you have something more positive to look at than your and other's(perceived) failures and shortcomings.

All this sensitive therapy crap - just change your life and do what you want. That billion dollar cashout is a fucking joke.

* Sleep like a rock, when you get the chance. Lack of sleep, among alcohol abuse are the most common causes of depression (at least from my personal observation)

* Hang out with friends, family as much as possible, when you get the chance. They'll constantly remind you why you work so hard. Also try to explain them why are you doing certain tradeoffs in your relationship with them.

* Swallow a boatload of Magnesium + B6. IMHO it's the biggest source of happiness one can buy for little money. It keeps your stress levels in control and your heart condition in shape.

* Meditate. I cannot stress this enough. Constantly talk to yourself when you're alone and seek thoroughly for things that cause distress in your life. Debug yourself. You have to like yourself for others to like you!

* Get a girlfriend that understands you or dump the one that doesn't get it (unless you're already married)

Also, and this is important, do they do node?

In that last case, get a divorce?

Some of the homes she went into had a panoramic view of open water. Some were house trailers with an addition consisting of a hole in the wall, a van without rear doors, duct tape and a tarp. Some were worse.

At times it involved getting up in the middle of the night and watching someone die. At times she knocked on the door and found the body. Once it had been feeding the cats. The time she found the lady who had fallen between the toilet and wall and survived four days despite being stuck was probably worse.

She had clients who were suffering the slow debilitation of Alzheimer's, clients who were losing body parts, and clients who were facing death in the prime of their life.

All the while, she had those clients' families. Some were close, some weren't. She told me that death doesn't fix dysfunction.

If we had a dollar for every time I didn't get it, or was selfish, I'd be an angel investor.

It took my wife a long time to understand what the life of a founder is like and getting here there was equal parts work for both of us. I spent a lot of time and energy in pervious startups making sure she could see what was going on and why it was important. I also made sure she understood why the whole thing is important to me on a personal/life level.

I don't think it's fair to say "she's selfish". She/he is probably more scared, a little jealous, and feeling un-engaged.

There is no decent scenario for a founder where his/her partner supports them "blindly". If you come to know these people, "the other half", you'll probably see that it is the opposite of blind. They see and know everything that is going on and they work their ass off to make sure their husband/wife is still human through it all.

Furthermore, it turns your pee bright neon-yellow which is hilarious the first time you see it :)

Magnesium deficiency has, in some instances, been linked to depression. I'm not sold on its effectiveness as an over-the-counter treatment, but it probably doesn't hurt either since it is a relatively well tolerated compound that your body uses in a myriad of fashions.

Also, 5-HTP is another common compound to help stave off depression.

So make sure you take a sub-200mg dose of B6 if you plan to take it. I semi-routinely take a B-100 pill, which is 100mg of various B vitamins (including pyridoxine), so just take one of those instead of a monster B6 1500mg pill or something sill.

Who was it that said if you can't take a month off without telling anyone you don't really have a business? Yes, yes, I know that a startup is not yet a true business, but one of the most important things in a startup is letting go as you grow. It's very easy to convince yourself that you are absolutely essential, but in reality your job is to build a money-making machine where you are not essential. One cause of burnout is being overworked because you are taking on too much personally. When you build something from the ground up, you have a lot of knowledge that others might not have, which makes it psychologically difficult to delegate, but nevertheless you have to find a way to let people make their own mistakes or your own treadmill will go faster and faster until you flare out spectacularly.

The options turned out to be worth a lot, by I couldn't enjoy work for 3 years, so I am not sure continuing to work was a good decision.

In my case the reason for a burnout was personal (relations with my boss) and I suspect that the reason is always personal.

I would distill it to 2 advices: ask yourself the 5 whys about the burnout and don't continue working in this state.

I second the advice to uncover the causes that are pushing toward burnout, because if they are left to fester then burnout becomes inevitable and post-burnout recovery takes even longer. Exercising more isn't going to fix it. A week vacation isn't going to fix it, a month vacation isn't going to fix it, because when the vacation is over nothing will have changed. The best a vacation can do is delay.

I would recommend to take some time off and _travel_, ie. active vacationing. If you just sit around at home that's probably no good. Also, if you can't sleep, take some pills.

This may sound odd, but I found reading books from the Dalai Lama also helps to handle issues like this on an intellectual level, ie. remove the negative emotions and just figure out what's bothering you.

http://www.amazon.com/Art-Happiness-10th-Anniversary-Handboo...

If you're startup is doing good, then thank the Hacker News Gods and don't worry!

Best of luck! Cheers =)

PS.: if you need someone to talk to check my profile for contact info.

Adjust your work life balance. This means doing things like (as have been mentioned) getting more exercise and getting better sleep. Both of these will not only help your mood, but they will make you more productive.

You need to talk to your team. Explain what's happening.

You have awareness and insight - you say "despite things going well I'm somewhat depressed" - that's good. Try some cognitive behaviour therapy techniques. A good book is "Mind over mood"; a good website is the Australian "mood gym". You could see a therapist.

Luckily this kind of stress / low mood responds excellently to interventions.

I'd check on sleep deprivation first. Take a week off, sleep 10 hours every night, exercise every day lightly (long walks listening to music are good), read a book. If you do all this and you still think you're at the end of your rope then you need to talk with your cofounder.

You also said it isn't affecting your work yet, but people are smart and social signals are sent without even realizing it. Its impacting your work already, in little ways, and will only get worse. Deal with this now, don't wait.

1) You are not alone. Most founders will completely sympathize with you and understand your feelings. There are a growing number of founders that are coming out with their stories. Remember pg's articles about the highs and the lows? Also check #3 of YC's survey here: http://www.paulgraham.com/really.html

2) It's normal. Knowing that everybody hurts. It's normal that things are hard. If you can acknowledge this one simple fact, things become much easier.

3) Openness. Talking to friends and family and being open about it. The hardest thing I found was to be vulnerable wit those I feared might abuse it (investors, spouse, co-founders). In the end it actually improved everything about my relationships with most of those (and some that it didn't - it showed their true colors). For example with my gf - for her it was an instant revelation how I was feeling and she understood why I was cranky, tired or otherwise distant. After telling her how I felt - it was like instant intimacy.

4) Time out. Taking constructive time out and feeling happy are correlated immensely. Constructive time out is not watching the newest Walking Dead, but for me an effective time out was writing lists of my thoughts down. Taking the time out meant I would feel more in control. Feeling in control directly leads to more peace and happiness.

5) Doing GTD. The other items in the list are somewhat softer but this is one that has made the biggest practical impact. I religiously follow zero inbox and for me it is a something I pride myself in too -> feel better about things and gives me the brainspace to think about the higher level stuff.

Hope that helps. Feel free to email if you want to discuss more. There's much more back story to this than can be public. ;-)

This can't be said enough. Everything sucks in some way -- and I mean everything:

* working for a big company (too much politics, can't get anything done)

* working for a start-up (not enough people, not enough money, too much pressure to get product out the door)

* being single (feeling lonely, no sex)

* being married (having to deal with someone else's issues all the time, not enough freedom to do your own thing when you want)

* living in Tahiti (food is too damn expensive because it has to be imported)

* living in San Francisco (terrible weather, house prices, too many hipsters)

* Jira

* Trac

* Vim

* Emacs

* etc.

I was also feeling exhausted and feared the worst, but it was all related to that. If you don't see the sun very often, you will build up a lack of Vitamine D.

for every problem there is always a solution, talk to your cofounder, your view on life and your peers is toxic now but this will change very quickly

dont rush into any decision now, wait until you see clear again

I just got laid off from a douche bag boss (who knows, you may have been that boss, for all I know). He was pretty much in your shoes. I imagine in another life he'd be a good guy but his negative attitude was infectious and as a result his protégés are now professional douches and everyone around him is miserable. You're going to become THAT GUY if you don't get out.

Take some days off. Soon you will understand that everyone respects your vacation. Don't afraid to pick up the phone and give solutions where it's needed while you are in the middle of your holidays. Picking up the phone will make you feel comfortable.

And always remember: Everyone respects your vaction. Don't afraid to leave for some days and relax.

You: I completely agree with patio11's diet & exercise point. Strenuous exercise (over 30 min) releases endorphines that act as both analgesics and sedatives, and are shown to reduce depression, increase self-esteem, etc. You owe it to yourself and your startup to do this life hack no matter what the cause of your current unhappiness.

Of course, diet, sleeping well, and taking time off/socializing are also great ideas. The important thing is to take action now before it affects your life/startup any more than it has.

Your startup: If you think some of your resentment or depression is due to dysfunction in your startup, then come up with ways you can improve it. Focus on actions you can take rather than on ways other people/the group could change. I also find that people are more likely to change when asked to do something than when asked to "not do" something.

For example, if workaholism is an issue, it's easy to fall into outward/"don't do" thinking like this: telling the group that the amount of time required is making you unhappy, and that it should change. Instead, try saying something like, "I think I'll work better if I take a whole day off every two weeks and I'd love it if people joined me. My first day off will be x day, and I'm going to go hiking, let me know if you want to come." People love to join a good idea.

Good luck!

If you take some time off to rest and you don't feel any better seek professional help. Mental health is just as important as physical health and isn't something that you should feel ashamed about.

I'm not a confounder, but the CEO-founder is a friend and hired me on as soon as he cleared his A-round funding. (We've been confounders before on a project that flopped and he knew I wasn't in the risk position to be a dayjob-quitting early employee this time.) He's a serious workaholic -- claims to enjoy being so -- and the company is doing very well. That said, he's CLEARLY burning out.

He's talked for the last year about taking some time off, but between the birth of a new child, fundraising, strategic partnerships and the continued burden of success, his "week in Florida" kept being pushed off, shrunk to "three days in Florida" to "a day off" to "I'll take some time after this next funding round. Maybe."

Setting aside the fact that he's my CEO (and a ragged chief exec is bad for everybody), he's also a friend. I don't want to see him burn out. This will almost certainly NOT be the last company we work on together, and I'd like to see him survive -- mind, body, marriage and social circle intact -- past our current endeavor.

So, again, how do I convince my workaholic CEO to take some time off?

It sounds to me like you need to get some perspective on things so I would suggest:

1) Talk to your co-founder. They probably see you in ways you don't realise and they should understand that for the sake of the startup it is best to give you a bit of support. If they don't then seriously think about whether you want to continue with someone who won't support you (and the startup) when you need them to.

2) Take a break. By this I mean a real break where your cell phone is off for at least a week if not two. Where you do as little as possible and try not to even think about work. It might take a bit of time to get yourself a chance to do this but you have to.

3) Learn to meditate. It will totally change the way you look at things. The feeling of suffering and pain you have comes from your mind being out of control - you know rationally that it isn't as bad as it seems and said as much above. Learning to calm your mind and get rid of the fog will help you look at what really is important and you will feel more in control and positive.

3) Remember that you are only human. There is nothing wrong with making mistakes and things getting on top of you. You must learn to not be perfect and be happy that you are as you are. There is no shame in needing help.

5) If the above don't work for you go and see a doctor. Depression is a real and sometimes very severe illness. For some people (but only some) medication is the right answer.

Hope that helps.

I'd time-box it - tell them you are feeling burnt out, and want their help for 2 months. No reasonable person would be annoyed at a co-worker taking it easy for 8 weeks. If you feel better at the end of it, then the crisis (for them) is averted. If not, you can consider your options. Note - I'm not a therapist, and I don't know if that's the best way of handling it. There's plenty of people who are better qualified than me to come up with a good plan for this.

> startup that really needs me right now

You should really re-consider that. No startup needs 100% of your ability. A slightly inferior feature-set won't kill a viable startup. You aren't in a 100m sprint in which you need to do everything that's humanly possible to beat the other guy. It's more like a dance competition, in which strategic decisions are more important. That's assuming you have a ton of competitors.

It's hard to believe, I know, but they WILL find a replacement and life will go on.

If I'm wrong, your boss should've learned not to work you like a whore.

I can feel the OP's pain man. GTFO. Quit.

But my point is, no company needs you to be give 100%. Ever. Even if you are the only person who can do your job.

I suppose there are several reasons why someone can burn out, and as well as getting some rest to clean the mind it is also important to find out why that's happening. Otherwise it would happen again.

My first and best manager I had, once told me, that jobs are a bit like relationships, the more you try different ones the more you find out what you _don't_ like. I have found that to be a great piece of advise. So I guess my advise to you would be find out what it is not working for you. Talk to someone outside the whole situation that can have a clear picture of what's happening to you, either a therapist, an old pal or just a family members I guess would be able to help you.

I hope this helps :) I have been there and I was miserable for family and friends.. but having them close to me was a huge help to get back to my old self once again :)

S

I started a small business that worked in conjunction with title companies. We basically recorded on our own servers deeds, notice of defaults, and other real estate documents and sent them to the county recorders office.

We didn't have much competition because this concept was relatively new and not popular back then. So everything was going great except my partner and I were two completely different people when it came to managing.

He was a strict by-the-book kind of guy that alienated potential clients due to his stubborn nature and unwillingness to compromise. On the other hand, I was too lenient and was letting clients take advantage of us. At the time we didn't know that maybe we could complement each others weakness, so we were constantly arguing.

So we both went to a mediator that suggested we go on a recreational trip together and not talk about business at all. So we did and at first argued about minor stuff, but finally came to a realization that neither of us were going to succeed if we kept it up. How could we run a business together if we couldn't even come to an agreement to which car to rent? We started compromising little by little and eventually it was easy to see the other person's point of view.

We turned the business around, made it even more successful and sold it making both of us very happy. Now we have a new company that we started together and it is also doing pretty well.

My advice would be to take some time off. Maybe spend some time with your co-founder in a non-business way. Get to know him if you don't really know him well. And don't sweat the small stuff.

Knowing your problem is the first step, and I think you've already got that down.

If you still feel down, don't forget you have a growing user-base that is cheering you on.

This happens and in a way it is good that your co-founder is going strong and doesn't need a break too. You badly need to recharge yourself & this has to be time well spent cautiously and consciously chalking out what you do during your break. A hackathlon or doing some sales for a friend can charge you back it need not be necessarily travel or rest. In effect you need to do something very different from the type of thinking that you do everyday (note different in thinking not the work type).

Also give yourself a break from all the headaches on your current startup - consciously keep away from talking to anyone on the team or checking out updates (positive updates are probably fine)

If you are the type of person for whom physical exertion works free up the mind - go for a hard trek or run or swim.

As far as your depressed nature, cofounder resentment etc - you might be blowing it out of proportion right now given you are not able to contribute effectively or thinking too much.

I can tell he's tired - he comes in to the office later and later, seems more easily irritated, has worked crazy long hours for years with hardly any days or weekends off. I think the daily stresses are just starting to wear on him. (Me too, of course, but that's a subject for a different post!) If I recognize what the OP is going through in my own co-founder, how should I bring it up?

For those of you who have or are going through this kind of thing, any thoughts on the best way to talk to someone who is struggling with this? I really want to help.

It took me several years to pin it down, but in my case getting more sleep completely solved above problems. Try and take a full day off and sleep in. Pull full 9-10 hours of sleep and assess if your irritability level is the same or not.

The biggest issue from a business standpoint is your resentment of your cofounder [I'll leave healthcare diagnosis to the professionals].

Basically, you and your cofounder are married. The startup is your baby. I expect [based on personal experience] a marriage counselor would focus on improving communication between the two of you.

I'd ask what the particular resentment is in regards to, but the details don't really matter.

What matters is:

1. Are the causes of resentment something which can be rectified either directly between the two of you, or with mediation?

2. How can the level of trust between the two of you be strengthened to the point where you can work through these problems together?

3. Is there someone who could help both of you work through the issue together?

The "end-game" for burnout is complete dysfunction and possibly worse for an extended period of time. If this happens the first thing your co-founder will say is "Why didn't you tell me?"

One of the most common overlooked things with developers is the fact that your brain strives for equilibrium. Tipping the scale too long can really have disastrous side-effects if you aren't doing some of the things you love doing. I broke down for nearly 2 months unable to code at all but it was the last time that happened since these adjustments.

Daily exercise helped me, try getting your pulse up, if you do this regularly you will get much better mood, more energy and things will lighten up.

Become one of the inspiration junkies. Go to the gym. Work on another side of the business. Schedule your day, leaving time away from your startup. Don't let what's urgent mascarade around with the set of things that actually need to get done. Start taking legal "smart" drugs like Piracetam, Aniracetam, Pramiracetam, Noopept, Acetyl-L-Carnitine, Lion's Mane Mushroom, Magnesium L-Threonate, etc.. in addition to helping you get "smarter" and increasing your productivity/proficiency they'll give you motivation and a serene feeling.

Meditate.

So, think about that and act.

How exactly to break it, I'm seeing loads of great advice in the rest of this thread so I'm not going to repeat it all. It's a different struggle for everyone.

I was good about exercising even at the depths of my burnout, but I nonetheless still felt tired all the time. The dietary supplements have made a profound difference. I've never felt so energetic in my life (I'm in my mid forties).

I'd recommend some sort of mind training... just relaxing doing what other people says is relaxing almost never helps (beach, book, etc).

Check this out [english audio]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHjyMq6eZB8

This one is good too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogH3KAge6zw

Don't think it can happen to you? Read about Ben Huh at Cheezeburger. http://www.geekwire.com/2011/cheezburger-ceo-ben-huh-details...

Take a step back, try to spot areas where you and your cofounder butt heads, it most likely comes down to two things: 1) Communication 2) Expectations.

Manage your communications and expectations proactively and you'll be a much happier company.

1) Not enough sleep and exercise. Get at least three consecutive days of solid sleep and go work out. See how it changes your mood and thoughts. 2) Your co-founder is dominant and you have no say. You don't feel ownership. There's an imbalance of power and you're in the second seat. A lot of startups operate this way.

On a personal note, I was (is) feeling the same thing for a long time. You have to decide what your life is going to look like. Pay attention to compromising decisions.

The author has some really good points and ideas.

P.S. If you are my co-founder, take a vacation already. You work too much!

What happens in such situation is that we naturally and often unconsciously start to think about it trying to find a way to handle it, understand what is going on and how to solve the situation. This is going on 24/24 7/7 and this is what is sucking your energy.

Taking a week off is an emergency protection measure you should indeed apply. But this just puts a spatial distance between what is harming you and yourself. Soon or later you'll have to come back to your startup. You probably know it and you may spend this week off continuing to burn your energy thinking about the problems.

So taking a real step back and a week off requires that you completely switch off from the harmful context. This requires will power but you are aware that your health is in danger now.

The second thing to do is become aware that apparently you are failing to solve the problem by yourself the way you tried so far (probably unconsciously with intuitive methods). So you have two options now. One is to take the step back and, after a recovery time, reanalyse the situation rationaly by trying a different approach you tried so far. The second is to get help from someone who know what you are going through and can help you sort out the solution. In both case it is only you that can identify the problems and the way out. The help is just to help you make a difference between what is important, what is not, what are automatic negative ideas and what is truly positive.

You got aware that something is wrong and you asked for advise. That is great because you've done half of the way to get you out of this situation.

Last point. As other people tell you here. Take this problem very seriously and tackle it NOW, ASAP or get the hell out of this situation if you can't handle it. This can kill you by suicide if you don't handle it. This may sound completely stupid and unbelievable to suicide one self, but you may get into a depression state where the pain you feel is so strong and unbearable, the situation seaming so hopless that sucide will look like a very rational and logic way to stop this. You are apparently far from this stage, but this is what you'll find at the end of the road if you don't solve the situation. I don't want to scare you. It is just to show you what is in the balance and why you should react and take it very serioulsy. The earlier you detect it, the easier you can adjust your course to avoid the dead end.

An ounce of prevention...something something.

so I would just say you are not alone!

Also, make sure you're surrounded by motivating people, or atleast people that get you thinking. I lack this sometimes in the work environment and it's a drag...

You could have worded your post much better than you did.

> This type of fatigue is usually caused by selfishness and excessive thinking about yourself.

"There's evidence to show that patterns of negative thinking, about yourself or about the situation you're in, can cause depression".

> Stop sulking.

I can't rewrite this and keep any kind of meaning. Maybe "Use Cognitive Behaviour Therapy to learn to stop negative thoughts, and create positive thoughts".

> I know it's hard to swallow

Yes, it was pretty offensive and not helpful.

And usually not when the person has already acknowledged that he's got issues and is asking for help.

This perfectly describes my thoughts on your own 'helpful' post.

Not only is there no medical basis for this kind of comment, it doesn't make sense. Exhaustion and fatigue are not a character defect. The numerous other comments here from entrepreneurs and developers should attest to that.

I don't suffer from lack of inspiration. I have tons of ideas. I'm exhausted from working full time for so little reward.

I need financial incentive to keep going and to pay the bills; i.e., you buying merchandise!

An example of my inspired work: http://www.cafepress.com/reversedengineereddesigns/8584366

Why do you think this is true?

You might be totally right, but it would be a more subliminal egoism, like feeling like a victim and being excessively defensive. I don't think most people will understand why being tired and selfishness are linked. Curious to why you make this causality / correlation.

TL DR; Walk away, stuck in your way of thinking.

For those who care,

I'm sorry that this post is so long, but to explain anything worth explaining usually takes some time.

First, we can be clear that the type of fatigue the OP is posting about is not physical. It is not the type of fatigue that you feel after physical exertion. Rather, he is talking about a mental phenomenon.

Now, if it is possible for you (and all the other readers of this post) to conceive that the current "accepted paradigm" for mental health is just that -- a paradigm, but not an absolute truth. There is a model of the world which sees the world as having no intrinsic meaning/effect separate from the subjective superimposition upon it which occur in thought. It is called "Vedanta" and I have been studying it intensely for three years. No, you don't get a degree out of it, but it is a 'subjective science' of sorts that lays down subjective laws (as a scientist would) and encourages you to verify or disprove them by repeating the same experiments (as a scientist would), subjectively.

There's a comment above that deplores me for not wording my OP better. No doubt, I said what I said without justification. But careful analysis of his own comments would reveal that he is merely using rhetoric to lend strength to arguments, not reasoning. By posting like s/he suggests, you are just leaning on a current paradigm and gross generalisation.

Vedanta defines three aspects to the human personality:

  - a physical aspect (body)

  - an indiscriminate, emotional aspect (mind)

  - a discriminate, rational aspect (intellect)

It's useful to note that the "I" itself may become identified with _any_ object of consciousness, given enough repetition in thought. This _fact_ is demonstrated by the current proliferation of repetitive advertising and brand awareness. In fact, desire is defined in Vedanta as indiscriminate thought flow towards an object or being which results in mental agitation. Happiness, then, is merely the cessation of said agitation by contact with object/being.

Thus, if you limit your thoughts to yourself, the circle you are binding yourself to is very small. The causes and conditions required for your happiness are extremely specific because "this is what makes me happy" falls in a very small subset of the world. You become dependent upon this subset for your happiness, and the world, being changing, cannot always oblige. The whole range of emotion springs from this: the world cannot always cater to _ME_. This is selfishness.

If, however, you utilise the intellect to entertain higher values (I am doing this to improve my community/country/all humanity) then you have expanded your sense of "I" and the causes and conditions for your happiness fall in a larger subset of the world. Consequence: you are happier.

Children never "burn-out" (but are full of energy!) because they are not constantly thinking about themselves. In adults, there is more emphasis on "I" and "me". This burn out is caused by thoughts moving to the past ("OMG I FAILED") or the future ("I GOT TO GET THIS GOT TO GET THIS"). Vedanta recommends:

1) Plan your course of action thoroughly, considering both the past and the future

2) Dive into action, and _while acting, engage the intellect to hold the mind on the present action_, which, co-incidentally is the definition of concentration.

This post was rushed, again. But if anyone is interested in elaboration I'm always available :)

When you spend long enough in a subject, what seems obvious to you might not be to others.

Don't let those thoughts leave you. Imo they are the only thoughts truly worth thinking.

Good luck with your explorations :-)