Thank god the taxis haven't all been driven out of business. I still find it much easier to grab a taxi out of most decently sized airports and train stations than to futz around on my phone, worry about battery, type in my destination, etc. In Manhattan it's still very possible to just grab a taxi without any kind of advance planning, and again it's way easier than having to mess around on my phone.
That said, Uber/Lyft have made it impossible to get taxis at smaller airports and train stations in mid-sized cities, which I find super frustrating. There are never any taxis waiting at the Providence Amtrak station, for example.
A comment similar to this one made me try a taxi from the airport a few weeks ago, instead of my usual Uber.
They went miles out of their way, the taxi had no seat belts, and at my destination they told me their credit card machine was out of order and they could only take cash ("I can drive you to an ATM"). I said no, and suddenly the credit card machine worked again - but they insisted on a 30% "card fee".
I did a chargeback.
This sort of thing has always been my experience with taxis.
I also tried a taxi riding home from SFO recently. I did not encounter any shenanigans - the taxi was in good shape, took me right home, and would accept card - but it was significantly more expensive than a rideshare! Even without traffic.
Yes exactly. If Uber did this sort of thing as a matter of course, people would be up in arms about it.
This is one advantage to there being 1-2 huge brands (Uber and Lyft, Amazon and Walmart, etc.) vs a smattering of tiny businesses (e.g. taxis). Misdeeds by huge brands give people something to point at, and complain about, and hold accountable. Whereas systemic misdeeds by individuals who are part of a smattering of tiny companies results in people saying, "Eh this is just how it is, learn to live with it."
Yes. The reputations risk on a company level from a local taxi company is much lower than Uber.
Have you ever had to worry about paying a penny more than you were quoted by the Uber app? Have you ever had to worry about whether you could use your credit card?
And anti competitive how? The taxi companies were horrible and they deserved to die
And how were you ripped off by Uber? I take Uber on average 15-20 times a month. The amount shown has always been the amount I paid and I definitely didn’t have to worry about them running up the miles or getting dropped off and them holding my luggage hostage and saying they don’t take credit cards or demanding a tip.
But Uber does scam you as a matter of course, they've just hidden it in such a way that you're willing to accept it because it's a slight inconvenience that extracts extra money from you, rather than making you go out of your way to do something.
But I agree with your second sentence. I would much rather pay a few extra pennies/dollars than have to go out of my way. It's a better world where there's a reliable company that's accountable, then having to argue and negotiate with every single driver about whether they're credit card machine actually works, or how much extra I have to pay with a CC, or whether they're taking the right route, etc., because there are no standards or accountability, and every driver is unrelated to the previous drivers I've had and communicated my preferences to.
Geez, this was just basic street smarts when I was growing up. Ask some questions upfront.
Have cash on hand when dealing with taxis. Don't assume card terminals will work, or even that they won't skim your card.
You may say, 'That's why I hate taxis cos they scam you,' yet this thread has contains many examples of Uber(Eats)* scamming people too.
Why is that better? Cos it's accessed via smartphone for some reason?
Conjecture/Rant: There is a growing cohort of people who want everything to become 'frictionless'. They are even afraid to just talk to people, talk to girls, everything has to be through text or through an app. If they get their way humans will start to interact with each other more like machines than like people, hey, maybe even through APIs! Meanwhile, what makes life interesting 'is' friction between people and cultures.
Yea - And those darn kids play music too loud too!
I grew up in the suburb where there were no taxis. I live in SF, and we can’t call a taxi without an app. I visit NYC once a year. Plenty of people (esp immigrants from other cultures) don’t have “street smarts” that match what some urbanite 30 years ago would have. I tried taking a taxi from JFK last time I was in NYC. The driver claimed he didn’t know where my hotel was, or even the neighborhood (“Chelsea”). They stopped in the left side of the highway to spit out the door. They pretended not to take cards, they added on fees not in the original agreement, etc. If I’m gunna be scammed either way, at least let me use google maps to put in an exact address and pay by card.
Wanting frictionless commerce is not a character flaw geez. An app is way more convenient. I can talk to people “IRL” but some things are easier with an app. Getting a taxi to pick me up is easier with an app that knows my current location - that’s a good product development not an indictment on the next generation.
> Yea - And those darn kids play music too loud too!
I sure hope so.
> I visit NYC once a year. Plenty of people (esp immigrants from other cultures) don’t have “street smarts” that match what some urbanite 30 years ago would have.
Ironically, the immigrants probably have more street smarts.
> The driver claimed he didn’t know where my hotel was, or even the neighborhood (“Chelsea”).
And you rode with him anyway? Why would you do that?
Reliance on Apps to intermediate everything is bullshit in my opinion. Plus I personally specifically don't want to share my location with some app written by people I've never met who are 100% likely to either misuse it themselves or to sell it to someone who will.
When they want to take your freedom away, they won't come jackbooting in with rifles, they will do it by offering you convenience.
I can navigate around my city effortlessly, but I’m not someone-else’s-street smart. Don’t expect me to know the rules in Tokyo, NYC or Rio. I don’t expect a Japanese person to know the NYC, Rio, or SF rules and I don’t expect a Brazilian to know them either.
I rode with him anyways because all this people on hacker news told me using an app instead of a Taxi would mean I would lose my freedom. I have him an address… which he put in an app that surely is the exception and doesn’t misuse it. Realistically, this taxi driver just didn’t want to drive to Manhattan during rush hour, and knew damn well where Chelsea is. We all knew this was the reality. But at the airport there’s a queue for taxis and he was next in line and had to take me.
I actually took a taxi instead of Uber because in NY they use regulatory capture to ensure they have better airport placement than Uber and I chose that “convenience”. I think Uber is way more freeing than a taxi because I can go to almost any metro in the US and get a ride without having to learn the local system. It’s a tap away. It’s way more freeing and has emboldened me to explore more than I might otherwise. That is freedom.
> Reliance on Apps to intermediate everything is bullshit in my opinion. Plus I personally specifically don't want to share my location with some app written by people I've never met who are 100% likely to either misuse it themselves or to sell it to someone who will.
Have you tried taking a taxi in a country where you didn’t know the language?
How many different countries and phrase books only takes you so far. I know barely enough Spanish to almost get by. But I wouldn’t have wanted to depend on it when I was in Los Cabos for three weeks staying in a hotel and I definitely wouldn’t have been as comfortable going around Mexico hailing a cab and giving directions as I was with Uber - and also needing cash.
Giving them an address for pickup works as well as a location based tracking and allows you to tell them to meet you 5 blocks away if you are on the move when you call.
The driver didn't know the neighbourhood nickname you gave..did you give them an address? You have to searching the map on Uber anyways, did you search your google map for the address?
Taxis will go down the streets you tell them while you drive. Turn left or right next lights work. It's more flexible than ubers pre determined route.
Immigrants have more street smarts than you give them credit for. They literally uprooted their lives from places who generally scam more than the places they move to. They have taken a scammier cab ride before they even left their home country.
> The driver didn't know the neighbourhood nickname you gave..did you give them an address?
They asked for the neighborhood not the address because that’s how pricing is determined. When you’re a taxi driver… you learn the neighborhoods. Especially one of the most well known neighborhoods on manhattan.
> Immigrants have more street smarts than you give them credit for.
I mean no ill towards immigrants. Immigration is scary and hard. But being “street smart” in a different city doesn’t always translate directly. They’re not expected to know that they’re about to be scammed! They shouldn’t be getting scammed!
> Giving them an address for pickup works as well as a location based tracking and allows you to tell them to meet you 5 blocks away if you are on the move when you call.
Or you can just put a note in the app when you order and send messages. They can also call you.
If you don’t speak their language, the Uber app does translations.
> Immigrants have more street smarts than you give them credit for
When I spent 3 weeks in Los Cabos, Mexico. I had no street smarts, I didn’t know the language and when we were stuck in traffic, Uber automatically sent calls because it noticed we weren’t moving.
No. It's 2023. You're expected to take credit cards like it says on the little logo on the window. If your credit card machine is broken, your Taxi is broken and you can't pick up fares unless YOU tell them ahead of time that it's cash only.
If this happens to me I simply tell the driver I don't have any cash and exit the vehicle. Now if you have luggage in the trunk this of course gets a little more complicated. Somehow the credit card machine amazingly comes back to life as I'm getting out.
> Why is that better? Cos it's accessed via smartphone for some reason?
No, at least the ideal is there's a functional reputation system for drivers and riders. Of course, if corporate is going to scam you, too, and if they're going to make less than 5 stars a death penalty for a driver, and if the app and payments are always buggy, then /shrug it all stinks.
Cab drivers are the real ones getting scammed, unfortunately, and rarely have any way of recourse. When paying with card, they are rarely paid in a timely manner, if they get the proper amount at all. This is even before uber made medallions worthless. When I was growing up, it was a matter of common courtesy to use cash in situations like that, where you know the employer is going to play games with the employee when you pay with card, like a cabbie's fare or a waitress' tip. As we got older, most of us who worked in service industries & survived on tips knew this the hard way because we were also a victim of wage theft via skimming tips, etc.
I'm glad my city isn't allowing certain businesses to go completely cash free for this reason. The push to force credit card payments everywhere just hurts a class of people that are already vulnerable.
This incredible scope creep in the customer's responsibilities (not just price, but I somehow have to adjust for a vague sense of the employer-employee relationship, for ethical/ESG considerations, etc. etc.) is just... overwhelming. I shouldn't be responsible for your employment relationship, that is between you, your employer, and the relevant regulatory authority.
Yes I totally agree. When businesses push for going cashless, they are often doing it to claw back the tips customers are giving their workers.
Tips that have become customary because it's become accepted that a waiter mustn't be paid a living wage. Why has it become accepted, because we have a hidden caste system.
But the customers get to feel cool to frequent a place that 'gets it' because cash is or old people.
The so-called 'hidden caste system' that has tipped employees at the top of the F&B food chain, earning significantly more than back-of-house staff like bussers and chefs?
Yeah, exactly the same caste system. I didn't say only waiters were in a lower caste. This kind of bullshit is everywhere.
Some establishments pool the tips (cash ones) and use to distribute it to the bussers (don't know about the cooking staff). Obviously this was not a universal practice.
> I'm glad my city isn't allowing certain businesses to go completely cash free for this reason. The push to force credit card payments everywhere just hurts a class of people that are already vulnerable.
And forget about the vulnerability of the merchants who have to worry about being robbed.
I don't believe this. I think that the real reason that cab drivers don't want to accept credit cards is because they don't want to pay taxes on the money like everyone else has to. Sorry buddy, your inability to evade taxes is not my problem.
I refuse to believe that not cheating people by default, and not expecting others to cheat me by default, is synonymous with acting "more like machines than people". What a cynical, depressing world view.
That comment wasn't about cheating it was about the communication medium. I.e. communicating via text or app vs. face to face. I.e. talking to each other like we're computers instead of face to face like people.
I regularly get Uber/Lyfts from JFK and Newark without hassle. I don't know why I'd want to ride with a regular taxi.
Taxis still suffer from all the things that created the impetus for ride sharing platforms:
- Lack of price transparency. Will tourists landing in JFK know that $100 is an acceptable price for a trip into the city? Or that $150 is a scam?
- Lack of driver rating (or passenger rating)
- Maligned incentives. The taxi driver has incentives to extend the trip as long as possible via traffic or a long route. This is not the case in ride sharing apps.
- Accountability. Doesn't happen in NY, but seedier parts of the world taxis have abducted and robbed/raped their customers. Ride sharing provides centralised ride records and GPS data for passenger and driver.
It's always better to take a taxi from JFK--if it's feasible and assuming you take a real taxi and don't get scammed by the dudes who try to hustle you when you're walking out of the airport with luggage.
As mentioned, they have pretty much set rates to go into Manhattan, and it's cheaper to go to other areas as well. I used to live in Williamsburg until very recently, and had to take Ubers from JFK occasionally when I landed at a terminal that had a bad taxi situation. The Ubers were expensive AF; over $100 total. Taxis were always sub-100, even when I used to live in Manhattan.
My main issue with taking Ubers from the airport, though, is that waiting for them takes forever and the designation pickup locations are clusterfucks. In contrast, the taxi stands have orderly lines. This is heavily terminal dependent, though; when landing at the American Airlines terminal, the taxi situation is great. The line is never too long and moves quickly. But, as mentioned, sometimes one lands at a terminal with a massive taxi line that moves like a snail. At that point, maybe one opts for an Uber--for which the wait is 10+ minutes, and may increase as time goes on and drivers are switched (!!), and the cost is extortionate.
In non-airport situations in NYC, taxis are always cheaper. Not always feasible outside of Manhattan (there aren't enough driving around in most parts of the other boroughs), but for any intra-Manhattan trip, taxis should be preferred.
I’m sure your experience was true at some point, but in my most recent experience with taxis at JFK, I would never go back to ordering Ubers or Lyfts. There’s a long line of taxis waiting, so there’s never a need to wait for a driver. They all have ample space for luggage, something I’ve had trouble with when using ride-share apps before. They had a flat price to go into Manhattan—around $70 if i recall correctly, whereas an Uber or Lyft at that time was $100+ for an XL. Surge pricing goes crazy.
Indeed, every single taxi I have ever seen has more transparent and simple pricing than uber. An initial price and then a per mile price. I can calculate it in my head, I don't have to trust that Uber's "algorithm" doesn't play price games.
JFK doesnt't do enough to inform passengers that the city caps trips to Manhattan at around 60 dollars. Meanwhile Uber happily milks surge rates up to 150
That’s great but as someone that doesn’t travel in Manhattan or major airports it used to be impossible to get a taxi. Uber is a vast improvement over the previous status of calling the dispatcher, having to wait 30 min, and knowing it’s 50/50 if they will even show up.
I grew up in shithole tiny town rural state. Our town of 7000 people had a few sketchy seeming taxis that I always wondered how they could possibly work.
Then I became a cashier at the local grocery store and noticed basically the entire underclass of that town used those taxis daily. Their service was so reliable that our front end manager would call the taxis for these people while they were still checking out as a courtesy.
Yet when my girlfriend tries to get an Uber in the city of 60k that I live in now, it's a crapshoot whether there is one AT ALL, or whether it shows up when it says, or whether your driver will even know where you are going (it's not a complicated city). So maybe if taxis sucked where you used them, maybe you could have fixed that instead of fucking over perfectly working taxis for the rest of us by supporting an industry player who explicitly was trying to kill taxis as a small business.
My local taxi company didn't have to support 2k Silicon Valley priced software engineers, didn't spend some of that effort building tools to identify and blackball cops trying to stop people from using an illegal service, and didn't force their drivers to sleep in their cars to make their normal wage.
In Europe (at least the UK and Germany) it seems to be the opposite. Outside of a big-city Uber is non-existent and you are relying on local taxi-firms.
I've taken taxis to from places the last couple times and they were a little slower, but predictable. I think there are still laws taxis have to abide by.
Meanwhile was stranded and we took an uber, and they did some shenanigans with pricing in the evening and it was > $100.
I think it is pretty easy to figure out if someone is in a bind and charge more. consider: on side of freeway. In front of car dealer. in front of hospital. In business parking lot hours after closing. when it is dark where it is lonely. etc.
I live near a smaller airport - the worst problem is that you can’t get service off hours.
In the taxi days, they had a contractual obligation to provide service to the airport. Now, getting an early morning Uber/Lyft for a first flight is difficult… prebooking doesn’t work, and you’re stuck driving and parking, hiring a black car, etc.
It seems easy enough to start a Taxi business, so even if all had been driven out of business, new ones would quickly pop up if demand for taxis returned.
That said, Uber/Lyft have made it impossible to get taxis at smaller airports and train stations in mid-sized cities, which I find super frustrating. There are never any taxis waiting at the Providence Amtrak station, for example.