I would argue for many people the value of a college education is not so much the education. Fraternities/sororities/equivalents, for example, are often seen at some schools as more important to social mobility + marriages and more exclusive than the schools themselves– mostly in the South, but also at some other schools, say University of Southern California in Los Angeles.

Not just, those, of course, really but any shared activities+clubs for practically any niche– college could be considered one of the last places where everyone has normalized openly seeking groups of friends based on common interests, to the point most throw extracurricular fairs at the beginning of every year. Not saying those don't exist after college, but finding e.g. a truffle mushroom foraging group is a lot harder in your 30s if you've never met anyone who does it before.

>What do you lose? 2-3 years of goofing off at a country club.

Depending on what you want in life, the social class you started in and the one you want to end in, that is worth a lot...

Exactly this, I grew up very rural and studied computer science in college, since I didn’t have any connections to companies needing my skills through parents, friends, etc. these interactions in college with kids from cities and making friends with them netted me my first job out of college.

This isn't universally true, CA and NY have good community colleges where this works, but if you're from Mississippi or somewhere similar it's likely your community college won't be great and might not have good transfer agreements with state universities.

>"What do you lose? 2-3 years of goofing off at a country club."

Now that I've been living in the real world for quite some time, I yearn to return to the goof off at the country club. I acknowledge that I am definitely looking back at my university days with rose colored glasses, but I still vividly remember the lifestyle I had while attending. I can't say the same thing for most of the education I received there. That's not to say it was bad, or that I didn't apply myself, just that we tend to forget the majority of things we're taught.

That being the case, while it is true that I would have probably gotten a more straightforward education at a much lower price by attending a community college, I would have also probably forgotten just as much of it. That being the case, I'm glad the extra money spent went towards the things I look back fondly upon.

You underestimate the value of being able to "goof off" as a young adult. Focusing 100% on studies and friendships, likely moving away from your hometown, and living what may for many be some of the most free (liberal) years of ones life before being put in the machine of economy.

Not to be dramatic but those first two years were probably the best 2 years of my life so far. And I built friendships and connections that would have been a lot harder to build coming in as a junior transfer. Similarly I could take classes as a freshman (not Harvard Math 55, but same concept elsewhere) that were well past the level most community colleges would offer

I’m not saying don’t go to community college by any means. I think for people who still need to mature more before becoming independent, or who are especially price sensitive (remember there are many colleges in the US that will give you a full ride just for good test scores, or there were a few years ago at least) it’s a good choice.

But just because the sticker price is a little lower doesn’t mean it’s better for everyone

Yeah. If you have the opportunity to do the "Harvard Math 55" thing in your field, you need to take it.

But most people take community college courses for the first two years of university. At every non-elite university I've worked at or had a family member work at, the most-subscribed Mathematics courses are College Algebra and Calculus I -- ie, high school-level courses where the instruction is probably better in community colleges.

Also: Mathematics is an outlier in that the instructional staff is fucking amazing at community colleges because of the dismal job market. The situation is quite different in CS. But, again, it doesn't matter, because most people at most universities are taking high school and CC level material their first 1-2 years.

For sure, but I take issue with the advice of

" Go to community college for 2-3 years, then matriculate from the university. Way cheaper, better teacher/instructors, more time to mature, start early in 12th grade, and the diploma is from the university.

What do you lose? 2-3 years of goofing off at a country club.

What do you gain? time and money. "

This really isn't one-size fits all - it's great for the typical college kid who has no idea what they want to do and isn't all that mature or academically inclined. But it's terrible advice for those who are academically ambitious (aside from taking CC classes while still in HS). You can quickly tap out CC curricula if you're advanced, and there are still lots of merit scholarships available in many state and private schools that will have you end up paying even less at a 4y college than a 2y.

Also, regarding instructional staff, it kind of depends. The failure modes are different. At a CC you're a lot more likely to get someone who wants to help but is just incompetent or has a lower bound on their knowledge (for math - can they prove something like the Intermediate Value Theorem and really understand it?). At a university you'll get professors who are terrible teachers, and don't want to teach, but usually aren't ignorant. If you're testing out or skipping massive oversubscribed intro/weeder classes you may not run into that much at a 4y. If you are taking those kinds of classes you'd be better off at a CC though.