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Try out Bard, it's coding is much improved in the last 2 weeks. I've unfortunately switched over for the time being.


I just tried Bard based on this comment, and it's really, really bad.

Can you please help me with how you are prompting it?


If you have to worry about prompting, it already tells you everything one needs to know about how good the model is.


I don't think that's true at all. Think of it like setting up conversation constraints to reduce the potential pitfalls for a model. You can vastly improve the capability of just about any LLM I've used by being clear about what you specifically want considered, and what you don't want considered when solving a problem.

It'll take you much farther, by allowing you to incrementally solve your problem in smaller steps while giving the model the proper context required for each step of the problem-solving process, and limiting the things it must consider for each branch of your problem.


I’ve been seeing similar comments about Bard all over Twitter and social media.

My testing agrees with yours. Almost seems like a sponsored marketing campaign with no truth to it.


After my first day with Bard, I would have agreed with you. But since then, I've found that Bard simply has a lot of variance in answer quality. Sometimes it fails for surprisingly simple questions, or hallucinates to an even worse degree than ChatGPT, but other times it gives much better answers than ChatGPT.

On the first day, it felt like 80% of the responses were in the first (fail/hallucinate) category, but over time it feels more like a 50/50 split, which makes it worth running prompts over both ChatGPT and Bard and select the best one. I don't know if the change is because I learnt to prompt it better, or if they improved the models based on all the user chats from the public release - perhaps both.


If it needs to write a code, I usually prompt it with something like:

"write me a script in python3 that uses selenium to log into a MyBB forum"

note: usually it will not compile and you still have to do some editing


Don't know what you are doing? But Bard is so much faster than openai and its answers are clearer and more succint.


This is just... false. Bard is not just a little worse than gpt-4 for coding, it's more like several orders of magnitude worse. I can't imagine how you are getting superior outputs from Bard.


Can you give an example of a prompt and the output for each that you find Bard to be better for?


I'd be surprised if he can. Both accounts that are purporting how useful Bard is (okdood64, pverghese) have comment histories defending or advocating for Google frequently:

Examples:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35224167#35227068

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35303210#35360467


“Bard isn’t currently supported in your country. Stay tuned!”


The Bard model (Bison) is available without region lock as part of Google Cloud Platform. In addition to being able to call it via an API, they have a similar developer UI to the OpenAI playground to interactively experiment with it.

https://console.cloud.google.com/vertex-ai/generative/langua...


it's also really, really bad and fails compared to even open source models right now.


God, what happened to Google. What a fall from grace.

Alpaca is pretty good though.


They have 100,000 employees pretending to work on the past.

They have no leadership at the top. Nobody that can steer the ship to the next land (or even anybody that has a map). Who is actively working at Alphabet that has the authority to kill Google search through self-cannibalization? Absolutely nobody. They're screwed accordingly. It takes an enormous level of authority (think: Steve Jobs) and leadership to even considering intentionally putting at risk a $200 billion sales product. The trick of course is that it's already at great risk.

They don't know what to do, so they're particularly reactive. It has been that way for a long time though, it's just that Google search was never under serious threat previously, so it didn't really matter as a terminal risk if they failed (eg with their social network efforts; their social networks were reactive).

It's somewhat similar to watching Microsoft under Ballmer and how they lacked direction, didn't know what to do, and were too reactive. You can tell when a giant entity like Google is wandering aimlessly.


Did they release the Codey or Unicorn models publicly yet? Or say when they might do that?


Is that free or do you have to pay?

Also do you need to change the options like Token Limit etc?


It's completely free. No tokens nothing.


But it can't be used unless I enable billing, which I am not willing to do after reading all the horror stories about people getting billed thousands overnight. I'm not willing to take the risk that I forget some script and it keeps creating charges.


Use a CC or debit that can limit charges. Privacy.com is a generic one. There’s others. Also Capital One, Bank of America, Apple Card and maybe some others have some semblance of control over temporary CCs.

Ideally one would want to be able to have a cap on the amount that can be spent in a given period.

Thanks for this! I had a temporary Cap One card on my cloud accounts. I’m going to switch them to Privacy.com ones to limit amount if I can’t find another solution.


Thank you!


Google's passion for region locking is insane to me


Its a legal thing, not something they want to do


What law prohibits Google from making Bard available outside the USA?


It's available here in the UK, so it's not USA exclusive.


I was just on a cruise around the UK and I couldn't access Bard from the ship's wi-fi. That surprised me for some reason. Should've checked where it thought I was ...


It's blocked in the EU because they don't want to/can't comply with GDPR.


Do you have a source on this? Given that the UK has retained the EU GDPR as law[1] - I don't really understand why they would make it available in the UK and not the EU, seeing as they would have to comply with the same law.

[1] - https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/data-protection-and-the...


What's the excuse for Canada being omitted


We're small and no one cares about us...


It is not GDPR, it is available in some countries outside the EU with GDPR-like privacy regimes.


This is naïve though. Regulation — especially such as this — has to be enforced and there is obviously room to over and under interpret the text of the law on a whim, or varying fines. OAI knows this and looking at the EU lately, what they’re doing is wise.


Which is interesting, because if they can't comply within the EU, then how do they comply outside of the EU. With that I mean, if they have concerns that there is private data of EU citizens somewhere in that, then that is also in there for users outside of the EU. That said, they do not comply with GDPR anyway. If that its not the case, then they could also enable it for users within the EU.


It's a risk mitigation strategy, these things are not black and white.

Making it unavailable in the EU decreases the likelihood and severity of a potential fine.


Simple: GDPR (or any EU law) is not enforceable outside EU


Some nuance:

If Google gobble up data about EU citizens then they fall under GDPR.

It doesn't matter that they don't allow EU citizens to use the result.

If our personal data is in there and they are don't protect it properly they are violating EU law. And protecting it properly means from everyone, not just EU citizens.


The gobbling happens in realtime as you use it


Actually, in case of Google it is, because they still do business within the EU.


GDPR is likely not enforceable if you have no presence in EU whatsoever, if you have no assets in EU and no money coming in from EU.

Anything Google does with data of EU residents is subject to GDPR even if that particular service is not offered within EU, and it is definitely enforceable because Google has a presence in EU, which can be (and has been) subjected to fines, seizures of assets, etc.


That’s a common belief, but it’s wrong. In principle an EU court could decide to apply the GDPR to conduct outside the EU; and in the right circumstances, a non-EU court might rule that the GDPR applies.

Choice of law is anything but simple. Think of geographic scoping of laws as a rough rule of thumb sovereign states use to avoid annoying each other, rather than as a law of nature.


They clearly can with all their other products, as can OpenAI since they've been unblocked. They're just being assholes because they can.


Eh, more like limiting rollout because they can't/don't want to handle the scale.


Same for me, I’m in Estonia :(


You can use a VPN to use an American connection, it doesn't matter where your Google account is registered.


Not necessarily American, you just have to avoid EU and, I believe, Russia/China/Cuba etc.


I'm in Switzerland and Bard is locked out, we do not go by EU laws because we are not part of the EU. We have plenty of bilateral deals but still.


In practice Switzerland adopts EU law with minor revisions because doing otherwise would lock Swiss businesses out of the EU internal market.

The Swiss version of GDPR is coming in September:

https://www.ey.com/en_ch/law/a-new-era-for-data-protection-i...


But don't you sill have privacy laws very similar to the GDPR?


Thanks, I’ll try it! (I’m in Hungary)


Google (Deepmind) actually has the people and has developed the science to make the best AI products in the world, but unfortunately Bard seems to be thrown together in an afternoon by an intern, and then handed off to a hoard of marketing people. It's not good right now. Deepmind is one of the best scientifically, they just don't really make products. OpenAI is essentially the direct opposite of that.


No thanks! I have better things to do than feeding that advertising behemoth. What I like about ChatGPT is that I don't see any ads at all!


That you know of.

Don't you worry, if there is any medium, place or mode of interaction people spend time on, advertising will eventually metastasize to it, and will keep growing until it completely devalues the activity and destroys most of the utility it provides.


> What I like about ChatGPT is that I don't see any ads at all!

For now. It's just a marketing tool/demo site, like ITA Matrix was/is. The ads are vended by Bing.


I asked it to review some code a couple days ago - the comments while valid english were nonsense




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