This is how you raise a generation that thinks intrusive monitoring and zero privacy is perfectly normal, or even worse craves it.

Maybe it's how you raise a generation that understands you shouldn't post a single thing online that you don't want the whole world to know about. Prior generations have entirely failed to understand that, certainly (cf. Zuckerberg's infamous "dumb fucks" comment—which, go figure, we know about because he sent it as an instant message)

> Maybe it's how you raise a generation that understands you shouldn't post a single thing online that you don't want the whole world to know about.

I can assure you that this has not been the result of whatever is going on at home.

Getting teenagers to care about their online privacy is like pulling teeth.

I think this might be because they get so much positive reinforcement from sharing what they are doing on social-media-platform-Z.

Funny thing is (IIRC) he sent it over IRC, which as far as these things go is relatively ephemeral :-)

Ha, yeah, reinforces the idea that if you don't have crazy-good opsec you better not post anything online—including in places as relatively-safe as IRC or direct messages—that you don't want in the newspaper, with your name next to it.

I still cringe at the immature garbage we did in college over telnet and unsecured NIS/Ethernet Unix boxes not questioning whether anyone was recording packet traces for posterity. Luckily disk space was super expensive back then. :-)

> but giving teenagers zero privacy (to the extent of going through their personal messages) seems wild to me.

Why? Teenagers are kids too, or have we forgotten that? They are actually worse than kids in some respect, still immature but with changing body and new hormones.

It may seem weird to them at this time, but hopefully they’ll appreciate when they grow older - or even if not, at least one did what they could.

teens won't just 'want' privacy, they will get it, one way or another. and if it means excluding other people (like parents) from their communication loops, then so be it. thinking that 'you can let them know that you read their little messages, and that takes care of some things', or 'sure, they may want privacy, but what will they really do?'(literally anything incl. getting a burner phone lol), is just unrealistic. it creates more problems than it solves - well, if ending up with teens who won't talk to you about their actual private matters (and problems) and just keep that to themselves while putting up appearances, is even a problem for you. like, sure, they won't ever talk about their problems with you - but in a way, that means they have no problems (as it appears to you). so "problem solved".

the realistic expectation, is that they will talk about some things and do some things, and you will not be part of those things (just by the nature of things, and whichever way it is, whether you're trying to surveil their chats or not, or just letting people have their own privacy), and all you can do is just hope that when something happens, they will be more inclined to talk to you and ask you for help, than not. setting it up in a way like 'i'm scanning your communications - and if something happens, it's gonna become a thing to deal with' - is not gonna help with that. it's setting up for it to be like 'i'm gonna try to avoid having anything out that could be seen by parents and become a thing'. not even 'avoiding getting into trouble' - but just 'avoiding writing about that trouble, or talking about that trouble with you'.

This is exactly what happened to me. Having no privacy made me a skilled liar, so I have that to be thankful for at least.

Not everyone has such a combative relationship with their parents as you apparently had.

It it is possible to be firm on dangers, still be understanding and calm, and let them have face-to-face conversations with privacy... even a beer once in a while or whatever else harmless thing that might excite them in other ways. Pick your battles in other words.

talking about privacy is different from imposing reduced privacy on someone. so i'm not sure why you're bringing that up like 'that's the thing that's been talked about all along, and it's not bad' (and it isn't, conversations like that can be good, lest they end with a 'and that's why we're monitoring every word you say in chats on a phone', which is the, not even so much 'bad' part per se, but it's just gonna have 'unintended, lasting consequences'), and throwing that in along with a wrong assumption about my life. that kind of 'well damn, not everybody had it that bad, geez, what are you complaining about' shit also just sounds like victim blaming (or rather, target? though, imposed surveillance can get to the point where it's so overt, saying someone's a 'victim' might not even be a stretch), which is also another important aspect to this topic.

My Parents gave me no privacy when I was a teenager. Guess what I learned? I learned that it was easier to lie and hide who I was than to be honest. I got better at lying and deceiving because it was a necessity. It was easy to get around their rules eventually; after all, I was a child with unlimited time and desperation to live my way. None of the children in my family talk to my parents anymore and most left home before 18.

No one is advocating the extremes you mention.

No on-device privacy is different than no privacy.

I'm not speaking in extremes and my story is more common than you think.

Teenagers also want and value privacy. Or have you forgotten what it's like?

> Or have you forgotten what it's like?

We're simply talking privacy in the digital context. When I was a teenager the world looked different so I had N/A for digital privacy.

> the world looked different

You're justifying invasion of privacy with vagueries about "the world being different". This isn't saying anything.

Growing up in the 90s we had a home computer, and by extension, digital privacy.

Another way to think of privacy (adult-free zone) is The Place Where The Critical Stuff Is Learned.

> It may seem weird to them at this time, but hopefully they’ll appreciate when they grow older

I have been raised differently, and with certain values. It is frustrating but ok to forbid or limit things, and to talk about issues. But to snoop through one's private messages or similar communication, that's completely disgusting and I would have what? Appreciated? No, never forgiven (works both ways btw, the trust). Especially at teenage age.

I guess I shared voluntarily more with my parents and voiced issues than I would have in such circumstances, can just repeat: dis gus ting.