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    "Since we know that infinite densities cannot actually happen in the universe"
How do we "know" that?


Because we exist. If infinite density existed, our atoms would be in there.


Not true. For example we could be surrounded by a sphere of uniform infinite density, in which case our atoms wouldn't be pulled in either direction.


For those of us like myself who are terribly naive, why wouldn't that just cause all of the atoms to be torn apart?

Unless the sphere were infinitely far away, only the center point would be in balance, and everything else would be immediately sucked to the edge of the sphere. If the sphere's radius was infinite, that might explain the expansion of the universe itself, but not the presence of infinite density within the universe itself.


When you do the math for gravity inside a shell of material, the quadratic falloff exactly counteracts the distances and the total pull is exactly zero.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_theorem


> Unless the sphere were infinitely far away, only the center point would be in balance

This is false. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divergence_theorem


If the sphere had infinite density, wouldn't that mean that every atom in the universe would be inside? So how could our atoms be outside?


Why? At a distance, gravity doesn't really care about density, only mass.

An infinitely dense object would shred anything it touches by its infinitely high tidal force, but there's only a limited amount of material it can touch within a given time and the Universe is not infinitely old.


> but there's only a limited amount of material it can touch within a given time and the Universe is not infinitely old

Okay, to be precise something like that can't have existed in the observable universe (at the time we observe), but could exist in a distant bubble that's expanding at the speed of light.


>the Universe is not infinitely old

You don't know that. Claiming that there is a start to the universe is an absurd, religious ex nihilo argument.


Compare the infinite set of integers to the infinite set of reals. Infinite sets can be subsets of much larger infinite sets.

Also, density is mass divided by volume. You have two variables to play with.

But all of this detracts from the notion that infinity and singularity may have no physical analog. They're mathematical constructs.


How does that follow?


There would be infinite m/v there, and finite everywhere without infinite density, so literally every single random draw of a single mass-unit would be in an area of infinite density, or so goes the idea.


That's presupposing that the mass portion of m/v is infinite, which, from our understanding of black holes, we have no reason to believe. Pathological local densities tell you nothing about the mass distribution of the universe precisely because they're so pathological.


Every theory has a domain of applicability, determined by tests within that domain. I don't think its reasonable to assume that the domain of applicability of any our theories extends to various infinities.


(This is not sarcastic) How do we know we aren't?


Well, there have been thoughts that we are living in a blackhole from another universe. So there's that.

These questions aren't answerable at the moment. It's all just speculation.


Yeah, I stopped reading when i got to that sentence


Infinity and singularity are mathematical constructs. They look great on paper, but we don't know if they have actual physical analogs. It could be that relativity and the physics around black holes, the big bang, etc. are wrong.


> Infinity and singularity are mathematical...

THIS. That I've seen, the [astro]physicists are confident that there are no actual physical infinities nor singularities. With the public, they'll use those terms for situations "approaching" infinities and singularities. But in private, they're busy using all sorts of clever mathematics and calculations and arguments to avoid having any infinity or singularity occur, even on paper.

A very basic example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirac_delta_function#Motivatio...


Are you saying that we have evidence that universe is not infinite?


Could be true that there is nothing with infinite density. But it is certainly not known with certainty, so the statement is horribly wrong.

>It could be that relativity and the physics around black holes, the big bang, etc. are wrong.

Of course, that's almost certain




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