Theaters are in a bad spot and I think they are doomed as an industry unless as boutique specialty theaters like LA’s New Beverly [0] as I don’t think the experience is worth the cost.
My favorite local theater was $6 for a Sunday morning showing ($11 for regular). It was probably 50 years old and I think everything in it was maybe as recent as the 80s or 90s. The staff were super friendly and seemed to love movies. While only 3-6 for a 10 theater cinema they would bake their own cookies and brownies and dress up in homemade costumes. A mix of teenagers and 50+ people.
They recently “upgraded” and now tickets are $10.50 ($21 for a regular ticket). The upgrade means the theaters now have fake leather power recliners that are actually less comfortable.
I go see fewer movies now. And I can’t help but wonder “what bank loaned them this money, they’re never getting it back.”
I don’t think movie tickets for $20 can compete with concerts ($20-infinity), major league sports ($15-200), plays, and other activities. To take my family to the movies is now $200 after tickets and popcorn and I can go to a major league soccer game for the same amount that includes parking, tickets, hot dogs, and beer. As long as I don’t want to see a specific game.
I used to see 3-5 movies a month, now I see 3-5 per year. I’m happy having a similar experience at home via streaming (worse picture, no community, but much more convenient).
I feel for the theater owners and employees as I’m sure it’s expensive. But it’s expensive to run a blacksmith and it’s expensive to telephone switchboard. It’s not that those things don’t produce value, they do. It’s that their value comes nowhere near their cost when compared to substitutes.
> I don’t think movie tickets for $20 can compete with concerts ($20-infinity), major league sports ($15-200), plays, and other activities.
Compared to those other things, sure. But if you consider that a lot of people go out to eat once a week and regularly spend far more than $20, then that $20 price tag is not so crazy. Part of the problem has been that a lot of movies released lately barely feel worth paying that much to see. The movies are just mediocre. When I see a good movie, though, I don't even think about how much it cost me to see it.
(Also, seeing a major league sports game for $15 is incredible. In my market, even at $20 movies are usually way cheaper than tickets to a sports game.)
> But if you consider that a lot of people go out to eat once a week and regularly spend far more than $20, then that $20 price tag is not so crazy.
It’s not that $20 is a crazy amount of money. It’s that it is crazy for what you get. I think restaurants would be in a tough spot too if you could get unlimited McDonalds spit out from a box in your kitchen for $18/month. People would still eat out, but much less given the substitutes.
My MLB team regularly does $15 nosebleed tickets. My MLS team does $25 nosebleed tickets a few times a seasons and the food is much cheaper. But it’s also super easy to pay $100/ticket. With movies, everyone pays the same price.
I don’t think movies are worse as I went to the movies pretty consistently over the past 30 years and there were ups and downs.
The price of movie tickets has kept up with inflation for the most part, just doubling in the past 25 years [0] so I think it’s just that the price of digital goods has dropped so much (mp3 in 2000 was $1, still $1 today) because the price of bits gets cheaper. And this is bad for physical goods with clear substitutes.
Interestingly, movie theaters should have benefits from digitalization as digital projectors are much cheaper as film costs a lot to produce and distribute and projectionists used to be the highest paid employee.
The price has kept up with inflation - but now the average person who can afford regular movie tickets can have a better viewing experience at home.
It's fun to go to the theater for the 1 or 2 blockbusters per year that I actually want to see - and be around the excitement / see it on the big screen.
For anything else, I'd MUCH rather stay at home. Even if it was free to see it in the theater, I wouldn't go.
It doesn't have to be that way; in a lot of Asia your ticket is for a specific seat and is priced based on that (both the view and the amenities e.g. the more expensive ones have a full table and table service for the food).
You're unlucky enough to live in a town with a good baseball team I guess. My city's team is so awful you can basically just roll up and get a sub $20 ticket for like any game
Btw, I looked up prices for Indianapolis, a city I used to live north of.
The Indianapolis Indians, a minor league team that gets a lot of folks moving to major league, starts at $15 per ticket.
The Indianapolis Colts, a major league American Football team, $24.
The Indy Fuel tickets, a minor league hockey team, $11.
The Indy Eleven, a 'professional' soccer team, $11.
The Indiana Pacers, a major league basketball team, $8.
And Just for some fun:
Chicago White Sox: $11
Chicago Bulls: $12
Of course, some of these are minor league and your choice of sports and local sports team might be different. Chicago Bears tickets start at $49. The Bengals are considerably more than that.
That's a major problem. Parents love to take their kids to a movie. But today, you have to make the choice "go to a movie with the kids, or pay the power bill."
It's kind of a no-brainer to just pick up a Scooby-Doo DVD or whatever for $5.99 from the bargain bin at Wal-Mart. Popcorn is cheap to make at home.
I understand the theaters' problem, but it's their problem. I've got my own.
>But today, you have to make the choice "go to a movie with the kids, or pay the power bill."
How is this different from any other decade where people went to movies? People who can’t afford their bills have never been the demographic that frequented the movies with their kids.
I think he might have been joking about paying essential bills. In the US, the mean entertainment budget is a few thousand dollars a year. Perhaps it's several thousand dollars a year for people who would even consider spending $200 at a theater. That's still only around $500/mo for entertainment to allocate, and so even though a family in that situation poor, they still are incentivized to spend the money so they can be entertained as often as they'd like to be throughout the month. Spending a third of the money in one night is probably an easy yes as a one-time event, but harder to justify regularly.
It's more of a comparison between costs and benefits. If you have to literally choose between taking the family to the movies or paying the power bill, that's not exactly a tough question.
Going to a 2-hour movie at the cost of $80-100 or more is quite the splurge.
Recently saw "Air" in the theater, and it was an amazon studios movie. Although it starred matt damon, it just didn't have the production values I expected from a movie theater experience.
I wonder if this is what we're looking forward to in the future? the whole pipeline will break down and the quality will lower to a "watch on amazon prime at home" level.
> Also, seeing a major league sports game for $15 is incredible. In my market, even at $20 movies are usually way cheaper than tickets to a sports game.
When I lived in Brooklyn we'd go see the Nets for low 30s in the cheap seats both before and after Kyrie came back from his vaccine vacation. Pretty competitive with movie prices in NYC.
Theaters as we knew them do appear to be dead. I don't think I've gone to see a movie since Covid and when I drive past theaters I don't see a lot of cars in the parking lots.
I don't think there's been anything showing though that I've wanted to see in a long time. Hollywood gets the blame for that.
Cost to see a movie is also a big issue.
It feels like the small theaters though are making a come back. I see plenty of "art house" theaters in Kansas City ... even a drive-in or two are appearing. These surely don't require the high-end playback equipment and tend to, IMHO, show better and more varied content.
It's also been out for a month, and they went to it on the last day it was playing (at their particular theater), which is usually going to be a wednesday or thursday. Cinema attendance is pretty low mid week. At my local cinema, I have a 75% chance of a private showing if I go to a wednesday showing in the first week; but a larger nearby chain has more screens and larger attendence.
I try to go to the local one if I go, because I would like it to stay in business, but they don't carry all the movies. And I just put in a home theater, so it's nice to use that when I can.
This has been my experience my whole life, growing up in a midsize city. Go to a matinee on a Wednesday and you are basically guaranteed to be the only ones there. It was less common in Austin but would still happen about half the time even pre-Covid.
> It feels like the small theaters though are making a come back
These are the only places I watch movies anymore. The overall experience tends to be much better. The screens are smaller, the quality of the sound and image tends to be a bit less, but that doesn't matter because they are also missing many of the things that makes going to the movies unpleasant. On the whole, I find myself actually enjoying the experience in them, unlike the "big guys".
It also helps that I don't tend to enjoy the sorts of movies that are in fashion these days, so the fact that the boutique places don't have first-run movies isn't a minus to me.
> I used to see 3-5 movies a month, now I see 3-5 per year
Same. Except it has nothing to do with theaters and everything to do with Hollywood and what's being released. The question becomes if Hollywood went back to the "old model", the model that saw less franchises and more comedy/drama/etc releases. Would it put butts in seats at the theater? Or has the latest generation/tv-tech obsoleted or diluted the experience thus shrinking the market going forward? (eg. like ecommerce did to shopping malls) Hard to know, but I do miss good unique movies.
I think you're a little off on the alternative ticket pricing. I just checked New York red bulls and two tickets all in start at $74. Not including parking and getting there. Similarly when I looked at concert tickets they are never $15.
Movies are also located in metro areas so easier to get to, are more flexible with times and showing and overall a more comfortable experience especially with a family. I think $20 per person for an afternoon is still competitive as a leisure activity.
I don’t live in New York and two tickets all in can regularly be had for $50, all in. Although interestingly movie tickets are only $20 for regular and $25 for imax in Manhattan so the value calculations vary a bit depending on where you live.
Also you need to be selective on when you go. If you have to go now, you’ll may more. If you can wait until May 20th you can get two tickets vs Montreal for $38 [0]
I thought I saw somewhere that bars were having a similar problem, with Gen Z choosing to drink/socialise at home rather than go to bars, restaurants, etc.
Not just Gen Z. Why should I go to a bar and pay almost double a bottle what it costs me for a decent beer when I and a friend can pick up a twelve pack for what it would cost us to have two beers apiece elsewhere? Why should I pay outrageous prices for a steak when between the two of us we can smoke a brisket and have enough to share with others or leftovers for another meal? And doing so I know I can get excellent service from someone happy to be there?
People forget that these are hospitality industries. They're all about service. You should be able to go there and feel happy you came. Instead most of these places make you feel like a bother and then despite a decent tip on the table you still get hit up for more money at the register.
I try to be polite, friendly and tip well. I expect decent service when I go out and increasingly do not get it. So why should I go out when for a bit more effort I and my friends can do it ourselves and share for either less or the same cost, but a better experience?
Inflation which is a new concept for myself in my mid-40s is playing a large part. We're not fully mentally adjusted to inflation and "value" these services less. Or perhaps we still mentally "value" them in 2019 dollars. Meanwhile, service workers have to live in the present and care about 2023 dollars.
I know I still get a little sticker shock just seeing menu prices now, I can't say honestly that I'm tipping the same because of it. It's what I have control over. Or, I can just avoid the place altogether which is what many people choose to do. I haven't fully done that yet, I've scaled back a little but mostly just natural consequence of having young children (we eat in more now).
Obviously, it doesn't help that tipping culture is absolute hell these days. I feel like I'm being gouged everywhere I go. For every single interaction. And, it's done in a way that's before the service where I feel like it's mandatory or my service will suffer if I don't go along with it. It's awful and I'm choosing more an more to boycott the tip line almost everywhere (seated meal being an exception).
A big part of what’s changed is the “home theatre” experience.
The theatre had a lot to offer when a “big TV” was a 32” 4:3 CRT. Now you can put together a 50+” LCD and meh 5.1 setup for a much more accessible price than that 32” cost 25 years ago.
This is one thing theaters will never be able to compete with home viewing. Catch a matinee on a weekday while kids are in school, and you have a shot at being the only one in a showing, but it's not a reliable experience. I've done this before, I think for one of the avengers movies while I had a few weeks off between jobs and it was a great experience. Choice of seats and no one to spoil the experience.
Other people is the main reason I don't like going to the movies.
Concert tickets may be $15 for small-time acts. For the acts most people actually want to go see they are generally $100 and up these days, face value, and well above that on the secondary market.
These days TVs with large screens are everywhere. When 32" was considered a big TV, theaters delivered a different experience.
I've stopped going to theaters because the cost/benefit analysis doesn't work out. I've got a long list of entertainment subscriptions that need to be paid each month, and honestly because today's movies aren't even worth a $5 ticket price. It feels as though they're too focused on technology and not enough on having a good story.
My own experience as well. After buying a 65" OLED LG , adding a good 5.1 System, and having Netflix, Disney+, Prime streaming in 4K , Dolby Vision, etc , I honestly do not need a cinema.
I would gladly wait for the streaming variant to appear. COVID certainly accelerated this transition.
Indeed, but for certain movies, at a good cinema, it's still worth it IMO. Top Gun: Maverick is a movie I've seen at home and in the theatre. The theatre experience was superior I felt. That movie is probably suited to the experience but I really enjoyed the open atmosphere and distance from the huge screen and the room that audio had to work with.
But yeah, for most things a sweet system (which is very attainable for most people today) is often fine.
Not the GP but tickets are $10 for matinees. They can easily be $18-22 for primetime shows. So if you're a family of 4 you're paying $80-90 for the tickets, everyone gets drinks, popcorn, maybe a snack or two.
It's easy to see it push $45-50 per person pretty quickly with kids.
I know there are lots of people who do it, but I can't wrap my head about why any normal person pays for drinks and food at the cinema. It might not be the biggest ripoff I can think of, but it's probably the most blatant one. The markups are huge, for items everyone knows the cost of.
I worked at an ~independent (the owner had three fairly spread out and independently managed 'local' cinemas) cinema as a teenager, tickets were dirt cheap and almost entirely went to the distributor. Food & drink was 'a rip off', yes, but a lot of people would be happy to to 'support' the local cinema, was pretty much exactly where it made money.
I imagine even mega chains charging literally up to 10x our ticket prices couldn't survive on tickets alone, the distributors still take the majority of admission, as I understood it.
There was a fair amount of distributor-driven quirks/'politics' that to a customer is a weird cinema decision - something else I recall is having to show a certain film, or for a certain length of time, even if it's not selling ('why don't they just stop showing it') under threat of not getting the upcoming blockbuster that definitely will. Sometimes it wasn't even that it wasn't doing well, manager would know in advance (by local demographics) that a film wouldn't do at all well, but basically not have a choice.
OK, I can see the point of buying the food as a way to support a cinema you like. Specially now that cinemas are mostly struggling.
I feel somehow icky paying upwards or five or ten times the cost for something I don't really need. But that's just an internalized habit from growing up in a frugal household. I wish there was a more "honest" way for theaters to work.
I mentioned one in particular saying nothing of the general market. (The big boy in town is absolutely not thriving, because where do you think locals go - the cheap independent that cares about stuff, or the expensive mega-chain with gormless staff with no reason to care at all?)
If my wife and I go by ourselves we will never get any food or drink. Maybe a couple beers if they have a bar, most of the ones nowadays.
If we're taking the kids though I consider it the cost of seeing the latest Marvel movie etc on day 1. If I keep a kids pack of popcorn and Icees on their lap, I know they will sit there and keep quiet instead of dancing in the aisle. Of course I bring candy in my wife's purse as well, I'm not the kind of monster who pays $7 for Red Vines.
Watch a movie without food or drinks is what I did most of my life. Same with almost everyone I know, I don't feel like this is a weird choice to make.
Where I live now it's illegal for cinemas to stop you from bringing food in, so I occasionally might bring my own snack, but that might be like one out ten times. Mostly just watch the movie and eat before or after. (Spain if you want to know)
Same here (Italy) when going to the cinema was popular, years ago.
You could maybe get some sweets or chips or peanuts or similar (small snacks) but not the giant popcorn or sandwiches/hotdogs/etc., but the general idea was to go out and have (say) a pizza and a beer and later go to the cinema or - more seldom - go to the cinema and later go to the pizzeria or restaurant.
I always thought that the eating and drinking in the cinema was a US only thing, France and Germany (AFAICR) had also none of that years ago, but that maybe has changed.
Curious if in other EU countries it has ever been a thing.
Here in Spain it's a similar deal, chips and candy or other easy to eat snacks is the usual. You technically can go ahead and have a cheeseburger in there, but it's rather unheard of.
In Spain you usually just buy the stuff, then go to the theater though, after some legal kerfuffles the current state of things is that an establishment can't sell you chips AND prevent you take your own chips, so we are free from absurd prices. I'm not sure that's the norm elsewhere.
When I was younger, we used to sneak food in. It wasn't like anyone checked if someone's purse or pockets had snacks in it. Granted, this might be different in various parts of the country, but I grew up going to movies every week and never had an issue with bringing food into a theater, so long as you made an attempt to hide it.
It’s possible to go for less, but when I’m taking my kids I want it to be a treat.
I went to see Dune in IMAX. 3 tickets were $72. The popcorn, hotdog, nachos, cokes, and candy were $80. So $150 total for 3 people and I extrapolated to 4. Although I think all of would have shared the one giant popcorn.
I like hearing about your pre-"upgrade" local theater. We had one like that around here even eight years ago that did second-run screenings in addition to loads of foreign films or rescreenings of films from decades ago. Great experience, super cheap. Unfortunately there was basically a hostile takeover of it by a guy who bought into the big seat vision.
A common alternative to the "upgraded" is the sad "closed". My city lost its well-loved second run theater of several decades somewhat recently. At least in our case we're somewhat lucky that the owners of that continue to invest in our only non-chain first run theater, and while it has some of the "big seat" upgrades it still tries to do some of the foreign films and indies and big "midnight" rescreenings of classics. (And is still cheaper than the big box, big chain options.)
> I don’t think movie tickets for $20 can compete with concerts ($20-infinity), major league sports ($15-200), plays, and other activities.
They don't always have to compete. I rarely go see concerts, and I never go see sports, plays, or anything else really. But I go see movies from time to time. In that case there is no competition, at least not in similar activities.
I love live theater the most, and see it frequently. I don't see movies that often. But if all live theater ceased to exist, I doubt that I'd see movies more often. The two things are very, very different and can't substitute for each other.
I can't justify paying more than a month of streaming for a specific movie that I have to share with people and where I can't put in a pee break.
Cinema just do not make sense unless you are a total fan of a given franchise. I wanted to see the new Top Gun, but I just waited until I could buy it digitally.
I can't wait until it becomes illegal to prioritize theaters - even if I have to pay the same for the ticket, the popcorn is a lot cheaper. That might make me watch more movies, but then again who knows.
My favorite local theater was $6 for a Sunday morning showing ($11 for regular). It was probably 50 years old and I think everything in it was maybe as recent as the 80s or 90s. The staff were super friendly and seemed to love movies. While only 3-6 for a 10 theater cinema they would bake their own cookies and brownies and dress up in homemade costumes. A mix of teenagers and 50+ people.
They recently “upgraded” and now tickets are $10.50 ($21 for a regular ticket). The upgrade means the theaters now have fake leather power recliners that are actually less comfortable.
I go see fewer movies now. And I can’t help but wonder “what bank loaned them this money, they’re never getting it back.”
I don’t think movie tickets for $20 can compete with concerts ($20-infinity), major league sports ($15-200), plays, and other activities. To take my family to the movies is now $200 after tickets and popcorn and I can go to a major league soccer game for the same amount that includes parking, tickets, hot dogs, and beer. As long as I don’t want to see a specific game.
I used to see 3-5 movies a month, now I see 3-5 per year. I’m happy having a similar experience at home via streaming (worse picture, no community, but much more convenient).
I feel for the theater owners and employees as I’m sure it’s expensive. But it’s expensive to run a blacksmith and it’s expensive to telephone switchboard. It’s not that those things don’t produce value, they do. It’s that their value comes nowhere near their cost when compared to substitutes.
[0] https://thenewbev.com/