You'd think they'd have seen a mass abandonment after the whole "signing people up for accounts that they didn't want" thing. They don't really have any attractive credit cards last time I looked compared to other banks, are they really good for mortgages or business loans or something?
The only superior general-purpose credit card that I know of is Citi DoubleCash, which offers 2% cashback on everything and permanent 0% interest if used correctly with Amazon purchases.
(The best Amazon credit card is Amazon's own, because of the 5% cashback. But even it doesn't offer DoubleCash's 0% interest option.)
I just recently went through the process of closing my Wells Fargo account and switching to a different institution. It was surprisingly difficult to open with a credit union (none that were in my region offered 2FA, and the one big national one wanted me to verify some information during signup with Stripe . . . no thank you). I was determined to switch and ended up opening a bank-like account elsewhere, but I can see why people don't do it.
I asked my credit union if I could use TOTP and they were like "no, we only support SMS". I then asked if I could disable SMS and they said "no, but we'll remember you computer for up to 90 days!".
Great. I don't check my bank account much more often than that. That's useless.
I keep their cash wise card solely to pay my mobile phone bill. When you do so, you get free accident insurance for the devices on the plan. I’ve taken advantage of it multiple times (kids), and have had zero issues with claims.
I've heard people getting stuck with them after their mortgages were bought out, but I imagine not everyone has heard the horror stories, either. Someone else mentioned a 2% cash back card, but I have one of those from elsewhere, so it's hardly any reason to bank there.
I suspect people just bank there because it's big and available, but I don't think I will ever bank there, at least not on purpose.
Nah, it would be surprising if they did. Most people just assume that the problem was dealt with and won't happen again. It's similar to <popular open-source software> which has backdoors discovered all the time but people keep using it.
> Later on I came to know about their history but I have never really had any bad experiences myself to consider closing the account.
You need to wait until your bank commits fraud against you personally before you decide that a bank that commits fraud against its customers is something to be avoided?
Perhaps rather than predicting the future it's more a question of which bank is more likely to commit fraud: the one that's a repeat offender, having committed egregious acts of fraud against millions of customers, or any other comparable bank.
"Catastrophe risk modeling expert." That's good stuff.
Past behaviour is a good guide to future behaviour. But you knew that already, so the only reason to ask your pointless question is because you don't want to make the effort to look.
Yes, Gas, Dining, Transit, Tolls, Travel, Hotels give 3%. Although points are usable after 2 months; & Cash back is possible only in $25 increments. I use PayPal to pay by WF points in any denomination.
In my case the deposit account is a condition of the loan. I don't have a lot of faith that my refinancing options are much better and I wasn't excited about the transition costs.
I'll probably switch to a local bank when the loan is paid off.
I think bankrate.com calculates the value of a Bilt point as 1.1 cents, which is not great but more than the $0.00 from anywhere else. So I have mine set up for paying rent (the "pull straight from a bank account" option is welcome, as it saves the credit limit in case I need the full amount), do a few other smaller purchases with the card during the month to hit the five-transaction requirement to earn points from rent, and use Citi DoubleCash and Wells Fargo Active Cash for everything else.
And some people I’ve met just don’t give a shit. When I tell them about the scandals, the attitude is “so what? Didn’t happen to me. And It’s a hassle to switch.”
ergo FaceBook, Google Analytics, TikTok, SmartTVs, Ring, etc on companies that make you think you are using their product when you, the person, are their product.
Pretty much every bank offers a bill pay service that automatically reverts to paper checks if the recipient can’t be paid electronically. Capital one 360 as well as my local credit unions have this feature.
I have used that with almost every bank, Discover, Wells Fargo, Chase, Capital One. Surprisingly, few of different banks looked like had same third party printer/mailer i.e. mailed from same address.
Just a tidbit, My work is paid by 1000s of Californians through these bill pay checks. Often we receive a thick stack (maybe 100) of these checks with sequencial serial numbers, same account & routing numbers, & each customer's unique identifier (for us to allocate money), all in same envelope or box. Its fun to go process those stacks.
Now I don't think any bank is your friend, but WF is probably one of the least bad options (among the big banks -- there are arguments to support a small local bank instead, although today's news put that somewhat in question). I've been customer of them for 20+ years and there were few irregularities (all, except when I distractedly left $200 at an ATM were resolved). They also signed me up for a new CC without me requesting such. As it turns out, that new CC had better conditions, so I don't mind at all. Not long ago there was a banking error (I suppose) -- a _substantial_ wire transfer from an unknown to me source, right around the time I expected a background check. That was resolved, but it took quite a while to get the wire fee refunded (a small amount, but why should I fund their mistakes?), in the end it was a local branch which paid me from some allowance they have to keep customers happy. Last year a woman unknown to me bought her cell phone with my funds using an ACH transfer. That was resolved and WF stated in writing that I "was not at fault" (well, I knew _that_). That's as far as their apologies go.
I do like their web site. It's comparatively simple and efficient (Captital One's is better, Citibank's is a whole mess last time I had to use it). Citibank also froze my account while I was abroad. Goes w/o saying that I severed my ties with them once I returned.
Honestly sounds like Stockholm syndrome…none of those issues have ever happened to me at my local credit union where I do all my banking. And I certainly wouldn’t come out with a favorable view of them if it did.
They signed you up for a credit card you didn’t ask for, but at least the terms were good - ok lol
Everything in this comment is your personal anecdote. You can't defend a thesis (in this case, that "WF is probably one of the last bad options") without actual data.
For example, the thesis that Wells Fargo has a predatory stance towards its customers can be supported with the following:
From what I hear, a terrible bank experience looks different.
Also, while not truly terrible my experience with Postbank (in Germany) is awful. I wanted to close my account before, but the clerk in the branch I went to simply refused to do so (only much later did I learn that there is indeed some time limit for closure of checking accounts, but that clerk didn't even bother to mention those).
I need a bank to be first and foremost reliable, secondly efficient. WF, as far as I can tell, meets those requirements (well, they could improve on the speed of check transactions). If the clerks are friendly, I appreciate that, but I do not go to a bank to stoke my ego (once, long time ago, I got paid for three months worth of a contracting job at once and the clerk was very friendly -- that was somewhat unnerving).
The problem is, the signing up to an account you don't consent to wasn't a system error, it was a deliberate policy at the highest levels (that knew about it and could stop it).
Don't mention Postbank... The only reason why I didn't switch yet is, that due to their IT migration, man did they botch it, I am affraid they botch the account move as well.
That being said, Postbank is actually rather good. They have physical locations in every postal office, before their migration their online banking worked great. They used to be reliable, offered good conditions. Well, I'll propably not move anyway, assuming things return to normal once the migration project is done.
WF is the single worst bank I've dealt with in several countries. Dishonest to the core. I can't detail it here, but I spent years fighting them over stupidities and unsuccessfully trying to close an account while living outside the US.
It's interesting that modern markets still have these built-in breaks (weekends) that work as emergency stops. Now everyone can wonder over the weekend whether this will spread to other banks and become another global crisis, or if this is just one poorly managed bank that made risky bets.
In either case, does anyone really think the taxpayer won't be on the hook for these risky bets? Privatise the gains, socialise the losses. The banks have too much power for this to play out any other way. Nothing fundamental has changed in a decade.
This isn't about Wells Fargo making "risky bets" in any way that involes loss of funds or can spread to other banks. This is simple buggy consumer facing software that can't manage to get correct info into a web browser.
If there was ever an industry that had less support for a taxpayer bailout, it’s tech startups. Lots of regular people loath these startups. By definition, it only affects a bunch of rich VCs, overpaid coastal elites, Saudi money, and elite college graduates. Don’t expect middle America to shed a tear.
I've hated WF for a long time, but recently they closed my account due to being an expat and not having a US address. They closed the account, and I didn't have to do anything. The only time their service was top notch!
Funny their logo is the bank coach. These days they’re more like the bandits. The customer is driving their money into the ambush and the government is riding shotgun with no shells.
My friend robbed a bank and less than a month later it was bought by wells fargo and had that western horse wagon logo. I thought that was a hilarious coincidence.
I would recommend checking out Charles Schwab or a local credit union.
I have account at Schwab (investing and general checking), local credit union (for a credit card and business checking), and Wells Fargo (because an account was opened for me as a toddler).
Wells Fargo is by far the worst but I just hold minimums to prevent fees (fees having a checking account is the most rubbish thing ever) to avoid a hit to credit score.
Schwab has a good mobile app and website, great customer service, and offers great checking accounts (full atm reimbursements and no fee international, no minimums to open an account). I have found the Chase app to be pretty poor.
Just some data points and I’m speaking about what works for me. Super happy I went to Schwab but do your own research if desired
Is your only Wells Fargo account, a checking account? I didn't think checking accounts had any impacts on credit scores? Or do you have a credit card with them?
Ugh they were my primary bank until about 5 years ago so I have one cc and checking/savings. Hope to close the account in a few years, maybe I should do more research on the credit score impacts but good riddance can’t wait to close
In 99% of cases, checking and savings accounts do not impact your credit score whatsoever. The only cases where they do are cases where the bank does an inquiry when you _open_ the account, but closing any checking/savings account should have no impact.
Wasn’t sure on this but according o NerdWallet Schwab will not charge an overdraft fee if they’re able to transfer funds from a savings or brokerage account. Not sure about specifics.
Schwab doesn’t have anything obvious on their site about overdraft but I’ve never paid any fees to them for anything
"Pull from another account" is common but also potentially very dangerous if you intentionally don't keep a lot of funds in your checking/debit account to limit the damage someone can do with a fake check or your debit card.
I wonder why people want something that isn't boring when it comes to some things like a bank in this case. I don't want hassle, I want something simple and boring that does exactly what it's always done. I don't want to think about it. If it's so boring I forget it exists but it enables my life then it's doing a fantastic job. Boring is quite good when it comes to banks.
Investments, maybe you want something that isn't so boring.
There's a greater chance of your money staying in and supporting your community...versus probably not even staying in the country.
Policies are driven by needs of members, not investors/shareholders.
You have a much "louder" voice about policies, offerings, etc - possibly even able to attend board meetings, for example.
Despite you saying "online only is preferred", it's really nice to be able to, when you have a problem, be able to walk into your local branch to familiar faces and get help by people who remember you and give a shit about you. At a prior CU I was on a first-name basis with the assistant manager and they would do things like clear checks faster, waive an occasional fee, etc.
If my local CU had competitive interest rates I would stay there. But their best savings accounts are still only a pitiful 0.16% interest. I'm in the process of moving most of my money out of there.
I've had a great experience with my local credit union (https://www.bvscu.org/) for banking and lending, your experience may vary but I think it's worth looking into local credit unions.
If your net worth is high enough, then most banks offer a private banking service which is night and day different than what most consumers are getting.
