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You’re comparing the behavior of a 10 year old with the behavior of grown adults.

The guy who bullied your friend in college is probably still a monster today. And here you have a company full of people who were older than that (including grad and doctorate students).

If he says the sky is blue you look up. It’s probably cloudy.




I’m about the same age as MS so I’m going to push the analogy. I was 26 in 2000. I hope to God I’m not the same person at 49 after 6 jobs, one failed marriage (and a 12 year current successful one), going through the real estate crash where I lost my shirt, etc.

I really hope I’m not the same person I was in college in 1996


The tree remembers what the axe soon forgets.

If you’re in a bar tomorrow and someone is picking a fight with you, and they say something that makes you realize that this person is someone you tormented, gloated over and whose life you tried to destroy.

Do you think they’re not entitled to their rage? Do you think you should get a pass in life for wrecking other people’s childhoods without even an apology? Or do you maybe have it coming?

By all means, apologize right now and try to defuse the situation. But Microsoft has never apologized for anything, and their new friends seem to think it’s all overblown and they weren’t cruel, vindictive liars who stunted an entire industry by more than ten years. Gates was deluded. He thought he was saving the world when he wasn’t. Balmer was just a thug. At least he was honest about it.


Yes, because as a mature adult , I don’t still hold grudges about something that happened over 25 years ago.

Are you the type of person that still refuses to use Google services because they cancelled Google Reader over a decade ago?

And just like I had to learn to adapt and change my behavior after failure, so did MS when it lost out in mobile and was sued.


Google is only now starting to think about approaching the level of maliciousness Microsoft achieved at their zenith. And yes, people are starting to boycott Google because of it. They should.

But boycotting things specifically because Google keeps shutting down projects is not the same thing. Boycotting for that reason is because Google now has a reputation of being quitters, and betting on quitters is just dumb.


Yes I’m sure that Google is going to have trouble convincing software engineers to come work for it at the compensation levels they offer …


Turns out pandering to the whims of developers is a really popular strategy. In the long run though, it's a bad habit you have to break, but it feels good while someone lets you do it.

As I said in another thread this week, you have to throw developers a bone once in a while to keep us happy and comfortable. But Google throws whole cows at people, which teaches people to be butterflies. I'll be interested to see if Xooglers ever connect the dots and start talking about the downsides of getting to work on whatever you want only for as long as you want to do it.


Comparing the outright malicious, evil, anticompetitive actions of Microsoft at their zenith to Google simply canceling services stupidly and prematurely makes me wonder how Hanlon's Razor applies to you.


Just for clarity, do you currently or have you previously worked for any of the Big Tech / FAANG firms? :)


I do currently. I work for the alphabetically first A in FAANG


Ah yes the “it will be different this time I promise” defense.

Microsoft didn’t get divorced or have six jobs or even study ethics as an undergrad. It’s a corporation. Made up of the same kind of people at the same points in their careers as it has always been.

In other words I get older but Microsoft stays the same age.


Exactly. Once the interview process selects for the same sort of people, the wheel turns all on its own.


You really haven’t been paying attention to the change in strategy over the past decade when Microsoft was focused on “Windows everywhere”?


I have seen them change strategy, at least superficially. I just don’t believe they have changed their nature.


"I used to abuse people physically and/or emotionally in my early 20s but now I really hope I'm a different person" seems like a far fetched world view to conjure, to me. Do these people exist?


If you believe in incarceration as rehabilitation then they do. But I don’t recall Microsoft ever serving time.


Something life or your friends should have taught you long ago:

If you want to break cycles of abuse in your life, you need to realize and accept that you are not obligated to participate in anyone's redemption story arc but your own.

There's a whole subclass of narcissists who play at being victims while controlling everything. Get out. Run. Do not look back.


Did you reply to the right comment?

What am I supposed to be running from?

How are you so certain my life experience and friends are inadequate?


Same thread, more applicable to GP. You can refute an argument or support an argument.


I am GP? So I’m still confused as to your intent. Are you agreeing with or lecturing me?


Agreeing


I’ve gone back to my 30 year class reunion. No I don’t still hold grudges against the people who picked on me as a short (still short) fat (I got better) kid with a computer who couldn’t talk to a girl if his life depended on it (I’m happily married).

I really don’t think about it. We talk. We ask about family, etc


Did Microsoft attend its class reunion? Did it chat with Netscape about raising kids? Was it insufferably condescending while doing it? Did it go golfing with 3dfx? Did it cheat?


Well, do you see Apple and Microsoft arguing with each other like they did in the mid 90s?


How many of your high school classmates died before graduation?

Your analogy is flawed. Microsoft is a corporation, not a person.


That just means it’s even sillier to compare what they did in 2000 to 2023. How many people do you still think work there now as then? Do you think MS is still using the same strategy in 2023 as they did in 2000 even though the landscape has changed?

Any long lived corporation is more like the ship of Theseus. They are the same in name only.


I think culture outlasts people and that they are likely to continue their historical recruiting standards and practices. As I said in another comment, I get older but Microsoft stays the same age. Corporations don’t mature.


I thought about going to my tenth to do something like this, but two things happened. One, the people who organized our first reunion had not matured since high school. They waited until the last moment to invite a lot of people which meant anyone out of town (ie, who “made it”) wouldn’t be able to come. Two, I realized that forty percent of the people I cared about wouldn’t be there, because our social group spanned years. We had seniors when we were juniors, and when I was a senior we had a sophomore, who was the “king” of the group when my brother joined it when he was a sophomore. I wouldn’t get to see any of those people, and that bummed me out.

By the next reunion I realized I didn’t have anything to prove to any of them. I wasn’t interested. And they were still trying to select for locals. See also “Glory Days” by Bruce Springsteen: people who peaked in high school.


>> You’re comparing the behavior of a 10 year old with the behavior of grown adults.

It is not a direct comparison -- it is a metaphor. The degree of literal interpretation here is stunning to me.


You’re trying to apologize for sociopathic past behavior by drawing on the sympathy society has for children.

Don’t pretend like we’re the ones being unreasonable. That’s gaslighting.

See also deflection for dummies.




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