In many European countries it isn't, as being Software Engineer is a proctected title, can only be used in legal contexts if the admission exam was taken, and the university was reckognised by the state as providing a proper Software Engineer degree.
The English name "Software Engineer" isn't protected in German speaking countries, but their German equivalents are:
- The German equivalent would be "Diplom-Informatiker" (which roughly translates to "certified computer scientist"), which you're awarded after completing a graduate degree/MSc in Computer Science.
- In Austria you'd be awared a "Diplom-Ingeneur" instead, so a "Diplom-Ingeneuer in Informatik/Software-Entwicklung" would be a "Certified Computer/SW Engineer".
In France (and Italy afaict), the "engineer" title is protected. You can have the function but won't have the title of you're not from a sanctioned engineering school.
That being said, nobody cares about it in CS expect for government and very large companies which will use it against you in salary negotiation.
> You can have the function but won't have the title of you're not from a sanctioned engineering school.
My understanding was that is was true throughout the French world (so French speaking Canada does this as well)? And that the curriculum for Engineers was more rigorous than other disciplines (there's a strong emphasis on math, you have to do some economics and so on)?
At least in French speaking Canada, the curriculum for software engineers is not really anymore rigorous than the curriculum for CS (of course, depending on your university). Even in math, some math classes are less rigorous or watered down for engineering, while some are taken by engineers but not necessary for CS students.
My understanding was the curriculum had more classes (a year longer) and less flexibility for course selection (you can't major in CS and get a minor in history for instance). Your electives are going to be engineering classes.
In the French Canadian system you generally don't do major/minor, you study only one field. It's relatively rare to do it another way. Electives are the same that way but you have 5-6 engineering-only societal classes (economics, ethics, etc...)
In Italy Software/Computer Engineer (Ingegnere informatico) is indeed protected, people usually refer to themselves as software developer or programmer unless they hold an engineering degree. The story is somewhat different when it comes to networking where it seems no one goes without the title. As long as you can prove you know your deal it isn't a deal breaker for private companies.
Just the term 'engineer' is protected in parts of Canada, and it's at a provincial level if I remember properly. The 'software' part has nothing to do with it. That said, the term is protected really weirdly. The standard is 'would a reasonable person think you can provide professional engineering services'. So seeing software engineers call themselves such is very common. I suspect the lax attitude here is because nobody would reasonably expect a software engineer to sign off on the structural integrity of a building.
In Ontario, the PEO (board that manages these things) hasn't gone after software engineers often. I don't think I've ever heard of a prosecution in general, and may people call themselves XYZ engineer without having the P. Eng designation. They tend to prosecute civil, and industrial engineers, and building related engineers more since civil engineering and a Civil Engineer have very different roles. Even then, you have to be pretty flagrantly disregarding the regulations to make yourself a target.
The only people who'd given me a hard time over the job title 'software engineer' were engineering students during my undergraduate degree.
To elaborate, the distinction is professional engineering. SO not just structural integrity of a building. Under the Professional Engineering Act is:
>“practice of professional engineering” means any act of planning, designing, composing, evaluating, advising, reporting, directing or supervising that requires the application of engineering principles and concerns the safeguarding of life, health, property, economic interests, the public welfare or the environment, or the managing of any such act; (“exercice de la profession d’ingénieur”)
In principle, there's certainly a good justification for the protection of the title, but the reality is much different. There's probably a case for regulators to actually figure out what meaningful licensure would mean for Software Engineers or companies but that'll never happen. There was a time where I thought 'Software Engineer' was a relatively uncommon title due to this case, but it appears Ontario employers have become much more lax about this.
If you say "software developer" there is no problem. If you say "software engineer" in many places that has an additional implication of being a professional engineer.
In Romania the term is protected too. That didn't stop me from having a career as a software engineer, just my title was not that. And the company lost the tax discount for employing a "real" swe. Guess my contribution was worth it.
It doesn't matter if it is a protected title, if a given company has the discretion of hiring whoever they see fit to perform the role, as - in most cases - there isn't a legal requirement of hiring an actual certified "engineer". They can hire a certified janitor to fulfill their software engineering vacancy - because the job title is actually a career path and not a recognized certified title.
Also, "software engineer" is an umbrella term within the industry; Very few "software engineers" are actually engineers (I don't recall meeting one software engineer that actually has the right to bear the title "engineer" - which, in my country -Portugal - requires being admitted in the Order of Engineers); The same goes for all "software engineers" that have actually graduated in mathematics, chemistry, electronics, telecommunications, biology and even design.
You may also find amusing that very, very few solution designers are actually designers, and even less software architects are legal architects. Also, often a cloud engineer or cloud architect has no idea on how to design proper rain.
In your country, that happens to be mine as well, the university degree can only legally have the name engineering on it if approved by the Order, regardless if one ends up joining it or not.
One cannot just go around doing a six months bootcamp and then call yourself engineer without having studied at such university.
And those that sign legal contracts for project deliveries specially with government agencies, better have done the Order exam, if they want the Eng. on the signature.
Then again, if they happen to turn out to politics and even reach prime minister status, it doesn't really matter how they managed to get hold of the "engineer" title.
Again, as the parent commenter, you're confusing academic degree with job title. You cannot call yourself an engineer if not enrolled in the Order (regardless if you have an engineering degree or not), but you can assume a software engineering role without any issue.
Tell that to HR, profiling CVs from enginering degrees taken at universities validated by the Order.
Naturally if one is at their own company, they can call themselves whatever they want, until they become invited to government and background checked on some TV channels.
Have you ever steered a HR hiring process for "software engineers" in the private sector? More often than not, HR doesn't give a rat's ass about which university or degree the candidate has, nor if he is a "proper engineer" or a janitor. What they care about is experience, reliability and how well the candidate will fit the team.
You are still confusing job titles with credentials. In a private company, you can use whatever title you want for a given role, and you can hire whoever you want for said role, barring some legal limitations of scope (eg.some documents need to be signed by certified accountants - even if the job title is "Scrooge McDuck in Chief", some documents will require a lawyer signature, even if the job title is "Major Wolf", etc). You can name the CEO role "master dictator" and no one can do anything about it. And as you already know, no one but pompous self-entitled code monkeys calls themselves the Portuguese version of "software engineer" when they describe their job.
Also, Government isn't private companies. The Government itself hires very few "software engineers", as most implementations are done by private companies. The most obvious exception is, of course, teaching - and even those rules may be easily tweaked if you are outstanding in your field, or have done outstanding work on a specific area - something that frequently requires bright minds and middle-school level skills. On a fun note, there are even some fringe cases where you can actually legally teach recognized courses (upto level 4) without any formal education in that specific field. This is often an exception - not a rule - and needs to be thoroughly documented, but perfectly legal.
I only see this kind of nitpicking and fencing on guys that come out of the academia and think that the "real world" (translation: most, but not all vacancies) cares about titles, grades and (often bad quality or irrelevant) published thesis. I'm not saying a degree isn't important - or even obligatory requirement in some cases - but those are often the exception and not the rule.
Yes, hence why when one doesn't want to pay for the final exam or monthly payments, or has the resposabilitie to sign legal documents with liability, gets to be called Software Developer, Programmer or similar.
Still doesn't go around the fact that universities need the approval for teaching the said degrees.
