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It goes one of two ways. One is that they don't have probable cause that abuse has occurred and nothing happens. Police dropping the charges seem to support this for this scenario. The other is that they do get the order and you have the same situation of visits and questions.



I had a friend who had a false report made against her by her husbands ex-wife to Florida DCF after they refused to babysit the ex-wifes' profoundly disabled child (by her new husband) while the ex-wife went out partying.

A social worker showed up demanding to enter my friends home. My friend was a paralegal and was aware of her rights and told the social worker to come back with a warrant if she wanted to enter the home. No doubt extremely offended about the false report, I'm sure she was not polite about it.

The worker contacted the sheriffs office and they got a judge to sign off on an emergency order by saying the lives of the children were at risk. The social worker returned with multiple law enforcement officers who broke down the door of the home, entered with with guns drawn, terrorizing her children, cuffed and arrested her. No charges were filed.

The worker continually harassed my friend for most of a year with numerous additional incidents before the friend was able to obtain a court order barring Florida DCF from contacting her or her family, and restraining the worker from contact specifically. You could say that eventually she "won", but it's was a hollow victory in that it came at a cost she couldn't really afford and caused harm for which there could be no compensation.

There are rights you have on paper and then there are the actual consequences in reality if you try to stand up for them. When you're facing a petty dictator with almost complete power over your life and almost no accountability for their actions it can be pragmatic to play along and not risk inspiring a vendetta.


Did the social worker lose their job? It sounds like if they had multiple issues and there was a restraining order, then they should have. If so, they removed one abusive social worker. Without that, that social worker would continue to do similar things to others. I'm guessing the emergency order was granted without supporting evidence (ie illegally by the social worker made things up).

Also, there's a big difference in how you invoke those rights. If you get aggressive, that can be a problem. Probably the best thing to do is ask for their card, say that you want to help and that you'll have your attorney contact them. If there's a claim of immediate danger, a quick show of your kids being happy and unharmed should suffice.

The main point is, if everyone just rolls over, these abuses and terrible bureaucrats will not be uncovered. The system will never improve unless people hear about these abuses. That itself is highly valuable, even if the personal cost is high.


> Did the social worker lose their job?

Certainly not initially, DCF backed them up. Maybe eventually? I'd ask but the friend passed away a number of years ago. This happened just pre-internet enough that it's not well documented online.

> The main point is, if everyone just rolls over, these abuses and terrible bureaucrats will not be uncovered.

That's true but it doesn't mean that standing up works out for the betterment of you and your family.

Not everyone has the freedom to make a martyr of themselves. I'm grateful for those who do.

> Also, there's a big difference in how you invoke those rights. If you get aggressive, that can be a problem.

More precisely, if you're perceived as being aggressive it's a problem. The distinction is important because we have less control over how we're perceived than how we act-- particularly because an important characteristic (perhaps even defining) of abusive bureaucrats is perceiving anything short of complete submission as an attack.


"Not everyone has the freedom to make a martyr of themselves."

True, but without knowledge that saying no is an option, those people effectively don't have a choice, and you end up with few people volunteering to stand up.

"More precisely, if you're perceived as being aggressive it's a problem."

Also true, but with today's technology it's fairly easy to document the interaction. If the official's account is a lie, then you've got them. If it's not an outright lie, you have a record for an object 3rd party to rule on (although there are plenty of bad judges too).


Your friend saved a lot of other parents during that time.

Thankfully I have not been terrorized by DCS but having been terrorized by police, I at least knew standing up for my rights meant those police were tied up with me for hours to days on end rather than terrorizing dozens of push-overs in the same time. I had a scenario recently where two tyrants were forced to babysit me for almost a full day, which meant that probably 200 push-overs who could be worked over in 15 minutes each were saved thanks to my standing up for my rights. When everyone invokes their rights the system locks up.


This sounds like notch556. Is there a reason you're using a different name? Did your previous account get banned by @dang?


I have a habit of speaking with a bit too much liberty for the taste of HN :P




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