Hey man good luck! I know some people who have tried and tried before it finally all clicked. One person I can think of now has 4 kids! It can be tough. I'm sure you don't need any advice.
Kids are the best, most meaningful thing you will ever do. Its worth it to keep trying.
> Kids are the best, most meaningful thing you will ever do.
Just coming in from the other side, but this is not universally true.
Mine has been an absolute nightmare, and I’m in pretty intense therapy trying to keep it all together. My relationship with my wife has been wonderful before and after, so that wasn’t a factor.
I’m not trying to dissuade people from having children, but we were completely unprepared for how challenging ours is. Apparently this isn’t the case for everyone.
Thank you. I'm a gay man & I'm sick of being told that the most fulfilling and meaningful thing I'll ever do in life is have children; which I cannot do nor do I want to.
Really, our planet could do with fewer people. If people want something fulfilling, they should do whatever makes them happy. That's what fulfilment and contentment is.
My wife and I got married later in life, and we do not have kids, nor will we ever have kids.
I don't regret it. I think I would have been a horrible dad. Only now, as I am in my 50s, do I feel like I might become a person who could have been a good dad, if I had known then what I know now.
So, my kids who were never born, and society at large, are probably better off that my wife and I have never had kids.
Hell, given what's happening in the world today, I think maybe my non-existent kids may also be better off never having been born.
Your relationship with your wife has been wonderful before and after what? The birth?
I am in a challenging marriage. I have young kids. My kids are wonderful. I am trying to work things out with my wife for my children's sake. I would be careful with the language you use to frame the problems in your life. How you describe your problems may influence what you see as the solutions.
Are you sure it's a problem with your child? Maybe it is a problem with you and your relationships?
Anyways, good choice being in therapy. A competent therapist will help you unravel your problems better than some asshole on hn (that's me).
I'll try to keep this from becoming a therapy session to the best of my ability. I don't have all the answers yet ;)
> Your kid is a nightmare? Your kid is challenging?
This is hard to explain without a larger conversation, but I think one of the primary issues for us is the huge commitment a child can be. We are in a very rural community (close to nil childcare available), very little family support, and both work full-time (luckily from home).
Deciding to have a child can be a complex decision, and it seemed like a good idea at the time based on the information we had. Close friends in very similar situations have been successful and happy. There are also a small minority of friends that have similar feelings to us.
> Your relationship with your wife has been wonderful before and after what? The birth?
Correct.
> Are you sure it's a problem with your child? Maybe it is a problem with you and your relationships?
I believe the root issue here is a conflict between what we want out of life and the realities young children bring. The things that "fill us up" are generally unsafe for young children (eg. mountaineering in the dead of winter at high altitude).
I'm not looking for criticism (unless it's constructive), because the decision has been made. We're doing the best we can and trying to find new techniques/outside help; we're trying our best given what we have. (it's worth noting that I didn't take the parent comment negatively)
> Anyways, good choice being in therapy. A competent therapist will help you unravel your problems better than some asshole on hn (that's me).
I agree, and I've posted the unfiltered version here. It has helped me mentally reframe our situation in a more positive light, but it's still a journey. Hopefully insight into our specific situation can help someone else along the way.
*edit:
>I am in a challenging marriage. I have young kids. My kids are wonderful. I am trying to work things out with my wife for my children's sake. I would be careful with the language you use to frame the problems in your life. How you describe your problems may influence what you see as the solutions.
This is good advice, and I don't see my child as "the problem" so much as the general situation. The struggle now is recalibrating my world view.
I wish you the very best. Let’s set a timer for ten years and come back to this thread. I am curious what form our journeys will take and hope this is represented the low point of what is to be a great climb up.
> Am I supposed to take your statement as I'll never do anything meaningful?
No, you probably aren't to take that statement that way since the statement never said any such thing. He said "most meaningful" which necessarily implies that there are other meaningful things, just lower in a hierarchy of meaningfulness. Respectfully, you seem quite bitter by reading into what was said, perhaps some introspection about the reason for this reaction would be in order.
Actually it depends on what you think is "meaningful". It could be having children, but it also could be discovering a new vaccine, helping other people, or just living a happy life without annoying anyone.
In any case, even if one thinks so, I find it quite rude to say that having a kid is the most meaningful thing you can achieve to someone that may not have children ...
>perhaps some introspection about the reason for this reaction would be in order
Perhaps that reason is that many people gay or straight do not want children and being told that our alternative goals aren't the "most" fulfilling ones is pompous and haughty?
You ought to come to terms with and be content with the fact that your sexual lifestyle choices may prevent you from doing things which are more/most fulfilling.
I've known people who've dedicated their life to doing charitable work for low pay, it's extremely fulfilling in a way that I will never experience, but I don't get upset when they say that it's the most fulfilling thing they've done.
>You ought to come to terms with and be content with the fact that your sexual lifestyle choices may prevent you from doing things which are more/most fulfilling.
>but I don't get upset when they say that it's the most fulfilling thing they've done.
You _almost_ got it, there. The former point doesn't align with the latter; what I'm trying to say is that, sure, for you having a child may be the most fulfilling thing for your life, but for others the most fulfilling may be something else.
Remember, their original statement was "Kids are the best, most meaningful thing you will ever do. Its worth it to keep trying." whereas really they should have said something like "Kids are the best, most meaningful thing I have ever experienced. It's worth it to keep trying."
I have heard that having children expands the upper and lower bounds of happiness and suffering. There are joys pertaining to being a parent that bring you to heights unimaginable, but there are fears and problems that bring you lower. The range is greater.
Many people all over the world suffer because their parents give birth without proper thinking by their parents, for selfish reason (to have meaning themselves).
Do whatever people want with their own life. But when it involves bringing someone else to life without their consent and no going back, there should be some checks and bounds and should not be for selfish reasons.
Kids are the best, most meaningful thing you will ever do. Its worth it to keep trying.