Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login
The Real Story On That "Antidepressant Surge" (neuroskeptic.blogspot.com)
53 points by DiabloD3 on Jan 7, 2012 | hide | past | favorite | 23 comments



The author claims, with no supporting evidence, "the truth is that we seem to be experiencing a cultural shift in our relationship to medications - perhaps evidence of the creeping medicalization of life". While acknowledging there may be other factors, it is still a huge jump to make such a claim. On a side not one of the areas mentioned is "a 20% increase in migraine drugs". One of the reasons for this in my own anecdotal unscientific experience is that medications have improved substantially in the last few years with fewer side affects. People who were simply unable to avail of medication a few years ago can now do so, improving the quality of their lives.


Other things:

Every year the massive baby boomer generation gets a little old and a little more infirm.

De-stigmatization of mental illness means more people seek treatment.

The population simply increases (obviously not 60% but the graphs are absolute numbers not per unit population).

We get better at diagnosing certain things.


Personally, I find our growing obsession with prescription medicine far more interesting than the "dramatic increase" of a particular kind of medication.

Though many physicians seem opposed to the overmedication of our society, it appears they are in the minority. I wonder if that trend will change. That would be an interesting (though perhaps vague) statistic to track.


Is it a growing obession? Or just an aging population? Can we get a graph of drugs per capita, binned by age group?


My girlfriend is a primary care pediatric nurse practitioner (meaning she can prescribe narcotics, among other things), and always complains that many of the doctors and other NPs she works with prescribe antibiotics even when it is completely unnecessary. They do this because patients demand them, and if they don't, many patients change doctors. Antibiotics have no effects on viruses, but patients do not understand that, or refuse to accept it, even when the doctor tells them. Pharmaceuticals seem to have such a pronounced effect on so many conditions, that people believe they can cure everything.

On a side note, I can see why people could become addicted to pain killers. I was recently hit from behind at about 50MPH, and hurt my back pretty badly. The doctor prescribed narcotic painkillers and muscle relaxers. Because my work is highly intellectual, I took them only when the pain was more detrimental than the effect of the medication. In essence though, the pills are kind of nice. They are like catching a mild (2-4 beers) buzz that lasts all day, without any nasty side effects like difficulty sleeping or hangovers. They kind of make you a little more relaxed and a little bit happy, with a slight haze on the brain. And they are legal and dirt cheap, even without a prescription plan. If you don't have to think for a living, I can see why you would abuse them. But they seem mostly harmless overall, would it really be so bad to give people that want them some happy pills? It's probably trading one substance abuse problem for another, but that would be ignoring the degree. On the other hand, the only reason I don't smoke weed is because I think it makes people lethargic and complacent, so maybe I'm not the person to ask.


Antibiotics have no effects on viruses

True, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they should never be prescribed to someone with a viral infection. In a small minority of patients, antibiotics can be useful for prophylaxis.

The precise set of patients and conditions where this applies is a matter of open debate, but (to take an extreme example) I certainly wouldn't say that a physician would be wrong to prescribe antibiotics to an immunocompromised infant who was hospitalized with influenza.


In addition, the placebo effect is real. The more strongly the patient believes, the stronger the effect. This is only a problem when trying to determine the truth of a drug's physical action - if one's concern is helping people, the effect is beneficial.

Of course, over-prescription of antibiotics accelerates emergence of resistant bacterial strains. So, faux-antibiotics would be in order - provided no patients found out, PR outrage, malpractice suits, license revocation, bankruptcy, etc.


> Antibiotics have no effects on viruses

Note, though, they can kill you. Something like three million C. difficile infections occur every year in the US (http://www.medicinenet.com/clostridium_difficile_colitis/art...). They are caused by the bacteria growing after you kill all the "good" bacteria with antibiotics. In a severe case, this can cause severe diarrhea, which can be fatal. It's not a good way to go.


What are your pills called?


I'm talking specifically about Lortab, which contains Hydrocodone.


The most common medications deal with issues directly related to lack of exercise, sleep, stress, and poor diet. So, I don't know if physicians are more prone to medicate people or if people are simply living less healthy lifestyles.

PS: And before you ask yes, Anti depressants are actually less effective than regular exercise especially when paired with a healthy diet and sufficient sleep.


Talking to someone the other day about copyright and patents, she asked the standard question that if big companies couldn't protect their markets, how could they pay for research into new drugs.

I countered that most increases of quality of life and longevity come from what you said -- basic knowledge of the value of exercise, nutrition, and sleep -- though I haven't researched it deeply.

The money going for all this drug research and prescriptions comes from somewhere. Whether directly related or not, schools could use more money for recess, gym, teaching nutrition, and healthy lunches.

I expect the return (in quality of life and longevity) on investing in improving school programs to teach such things would surpass what you get from investments (such as by creating limited monopolies) in drug research, and you wouldn't get the side effects (no pun intended) from the monopolies like this article suggested of marketing to people to buy drugs to fix what exercise, sleep, and diet would for free.

I'm not saying never give patents for drugs, but evidence like the article's, combined with knowing the value of diet, exercise, and sleep that we aren't teaching and practicing, suggests the net value of public support for drug research is not as high as you'd expect and could even be negative.

Anecdotally, I feel my regular exercise, regular sleep, and healthy diet create a stable foundation for me to enjoy my life much more than when I didn't have them.


Do you have any links that backup your assertion regarding antidepressants?



Good to see some analysis done of use of data in the media. Accountability in this area is generally way too low.


It's worthy of the great @bengoldacre.


for me drugs are like monkey patching - really cool way to quickly fix things, but it is addicting and can lead to huge mess in the end. Instead we should build system to make sure long term system operate well.


I'm going through a very difficult time in my personal life and meds have been a crucial supplement to other forms of therapy. They would be much less impactful if the underlying issues weren't being addressed though.


That case sounds a lot more reasonable. I think there's a widespread viewpoint that antidepressants are curing a simple physical problem (too little chemical X --> take drug to increase production of chemical X, problem solved), when in the vast majority of cases they're pretty blunt tools, that don't precisely solve a problem so much as mask, alter, suppress, or otherwise help manage it. Which doesn't mean they can't be very useful tools to manage various things, especially for finite periods of time or in concert with other approaches.


I agree with you completely, i think the general thought process here to reach the conclusion of 'just go exercise' is based on personal experiences, but if you have ever seen people go through major depression, it is not that easy, even to get them to take the meds for a few weeks because effects are not immediate and initially they make the subject feel weird


I'd probably need it less if I actually did exercise! :/


benvanderbeek, I am really sorry to hear this and trust me I was not speaking about situation like yours.

There is huge trend to consume meds when body mostly healthy, or reason why some health issue was caused by neglecting it.

Your situation totally different - I agree. As a comparison: when I had my appendicitis removed I _had_ to get anesthesia, 'cos otherwise it would be too big pain.


Don't worry, the meds give me a thick skin ;)




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: