Amazon is unusable at this point, and I don’t get how they have so many customers. Free and fast shipping is no longer exclusive to them, and there are others out there with far nicer websites and no shitty ad listings.
I only need to buy something online every couple months, maybe once a month at most. I hate shopping so I'll be damned if I will spend 1 more second thinking about the process than I have to. Amazon always has the thing, ships it in 2 days, I can be relatively sure I'm not getting ripped off by more than +/- 25% and that's good enough for me. I've never had any issues with fakes that HN complains about all the time.
I think Amazon lives off the backs of folks like me, or maybe people that shop slightly more than me but not much. If I was the type of person shopping for things everyday I'd imagine I would branch out. But for the vast majority of folks consistency is king.
> I can be relatively sure I'm not getting ripped off by more than +/- 25%
I think this is the only thing keeping them afloat. How are you so sure you’re not getting ripped off? Did you know counterfeits can be sold under the “sold by anazon.com” branding because of co-mingling?
I used to have the same view as you until I started getting shoddy products consistently from brands that were otherwise high quality if I purchased in store. Then I realized I had no way to tell if what I was purchasing was real, and I started questioning why the lack of toothpaste I bought tasted different than normal and had off-color printing.
I’m just increasingly finding it not worth the worry, especially for things I put I my body.
> Did you know counterfeits can be sold under the “sold by anazon.com” branding because of co-mingling?
I have also had a bad experience with "Sold by Amazon.com" so I'm not questioning the veracity of what you are saying. But how does this work? How can someone get a counterfeit product under this umbrella?
My understanding is, if I sell an item with a SKU[1] 123456, and use "fulfillment by Amazon" it goes in an Amazon warehouse in a bucket with all the other items of the same SKU using Amazon's shipping. Then my inventory becomes just a number in a database.
People selling DVDs on Amazon were complaining about bad reviews because someone bought from them, but got a counterfeit sold by someone else.
"Sold by Amazon" comingles identical SKUs from different sellers in their warehouses.
Seller A sells real Product Z on Amazon. Seller B sells fake Product Z on Amazon. When you order Product Z that is "Sold on Amazon" you might get a real one provided by Seller A, or you might get a fake one sold by Seller B
I believe your description was accurate before ca. 2015, but at some point they reportedly started making commingling the default even for "Sold by Amazon" items. Commingling isn't the only issue, either; there's still the problem of products for which Amazon was never an authorized retailer and so their listing/SKU may have been created to sell counterfeits in the first place. In any case, there have been multiple lawsuits specifically alleging that counterfeit items were "Sold by Amazon" [1] [2] [3].
I mean literally the next sentence after your quote says "I've never had any issues with fakes that HN complains about all the time" so I'm pretty positive they do know about it.
Yes. I bought a ladle from Amazon. I noticed from some of the comments that a lot of people were getting a knock off ladle.
When I arrived, I checked to see if it was legitimate, and… it was not. It was a knock-off.
It was fine as a ladle. It ladled things. I never would’ve noticed or complained if I hadn’t seen the rules. No harm, no foul, right?
Absolutely not. That day I made a rule that I do not buy anything that goes on your skin, in your body, or health and safety kit from Amazon. If I can’t trust their ladles are authentic, I can’t trust their sunscreen or thermometers are authentic.
So, while the ladle didn’t harm me directly, it did pretty significant change my purchase habits.
Well, you don't know that the ladle didn't harm you directly. If it's made of substandard materials that leech carcinogens into your food, the effects might take years to appear.
bought an apple charger, nearly set my house on fire. I opened up the one I bought from amazon, and the old one I had at home. weight, number of components, etc clearly told me it was a differnt product. Yeah I was done buying anything electronic from amazon.
>" I hate shopping so I'll be damned if I will spend 1 more second thinking about the process than I have to. Amazon always has the thing, ships it in 2 days, I can be relatively sure I'm not getting ripped off by more than +/- 25% and that's good enough for me."
My experience before I got rid of Amazon years ago started out similar but then I found that the process of shopping took longer and longer - trying to compare 50+ versions of the same thing, filtering out dubious looking sellers and brands etc. I actually started to feel like the experience was worse than just going to a store and carrying the the thing home. I also started to think the prices weren't really all that great because they became the same or or often slightly more expensive that what I could find in a brick and mortar store. Couple this with a general decline in Amazon's last mile delivery which seemed to be a whole other shit show where the contracting parcel service would mark them as delivered even though they hadn't actually been deliver yet and it just became a really miserable experience. Should you need to contact customer service and speak to someone you can pretty much dispense with another half hour of your time.
>"But for the vast majority of folks consistency is king."
For me there was very little consistency in the Amazon experience. It was hit and miss. From reading this article though it sounds like the thing that is consistent is an increasingly worse experience.
For me it's the fact that they have literally _everything_ on their store.
I'm not going to go out and make 3 different accounts on sites that aren't Amazon, when I could save time and buy anything ranging from auto parts to PC parts to groceries on the same website.
Yes, a lot of it is rebadged Ali junk, but guess what, sometimes that junk actually does the work it's supposed to. If I'm buying a plastic towel hook for the bathroom, I really don't care where it comes from or if it's 50c cheaper on another website.
Yeah, I've been weaning myself off Amazon for a while. Now if I'm shopping for something my general approach is to a) look for neutral reviews (e.g. Wirecutter and Consumer Reports), b) see if I can buy it from whoever makes it, and c) search on shopping.google.com to look for reasonable prices from some other vendor.
This is undeniably a little more work that just searching on Amazon and buying the first option. But it's about the same amount of work as using Amazon properly (skipping the sponsored listings, filtering out the dubious non-Amazon sellers, figuring out which reviews are fake, trying to tell whether the nominal maker is a real company versus some weird algorithm cloner or re-reseller, worrying over whether Amazon's inventory-mixing means I'll get a fake, etc).
I still end up buying some things from Amazon, but it's fewer and fewer, and I'm usually happier with the total outcome now.
I started doing the same 1-2 years ago! Felt bad about giving Jeff Bezos so much money.
At first I thought it was gonna be an impossible effort, but since I'd take Google over Amazon any day (although also not super happily), I do a lot of the last mile (finding a good/non-shady offer for a specific product I've already decided to buy through reviews) there. And usually I find it cheaper with equally fast shipping. For stuff I commonly buy, there are really strong competitors (at least in Germany) that I buy from by going directly to their website.
Had to first realise that a lot of the stuff Amazon was at first unique for, is now pretty much a commodity. And their offering certainly hasn't improved in the last years in my eyes.
For sure. Other places have gotten better, and Amazon has gotten worse for me. The way I interpret it is that Amazon started out with a really strong customer focus, but they've shifted more and more toward revenue maximization at my expense.
My shipping has deteriorated massively in the last couple of years. What used to be 2 day shipping as a prime member is now often as much as 10 days. That, plus all the knock-offs and bad product quality, has made me stop using Amazon for much.
They've built out small, local distribution centers that stock the more commonly ordered items. When you're in an area with one and pick the right item, it comes same or next day.
Main reason I still use them is 100% hassle free return policy. I don’t stress about buying something crappy, as I know I can return it, in very convenient ways.
Similarly, if the parcel service marks it as "attempted delivery not home" (even though I or someone else was home all day) and drops it of at a pickup on the other side of town (even though they have a branch around the corner) I can just order it again and count on amazon to refund the first order (and perhaps demand the delivery service be less shit). For a smaller seller a) I probably need to contact them to get a refund at all, b) more than likely they want me to eat the delivery fee for sending it again and c) even if they cover it they don't have any leverage with the delivery service to be less shit.
For some reason that changed for me lately and they no longer do free UPS pickup for returns. I have to go mail them myself, which tips the balance of the return convenience scale for me.
I rarely have to return things, but when I do have to return something purchased on Amazon it's basically: couple of clicks, get a QR in email, walk into the local UPS store with the item and hand it over, quick scan of the QR and done. Yeah it would be nice if they just sent someone to the house to get the item, but it doesn't surprise me that the economics of that don't work out.
I have Whole Foods, UPS drop off points, Amazon locker and Kohls all on the routes I frequent. And TBH, I prefer those over UPS pickup as making sure I’m home and running to the door when they arrive is not convenient for me. YMMV.
"Stuff like that" being what, anything mains-powered, anything with a lithium-ion battery, anything that touches your skin, anything that might get very hot as part of its operation, anything whose continued functionality manages the safe temperature or pressure of anything else, anything that connects to the Internet, anything that stores data, anything that touches food, anything you might ingest or inhale, anything load-bearing, anything that is costly or difficult to remove once installed, any components that fail in a way that damage other components in the same device, anything whose failure would block an ongoing project, anything that seals containers or conduits for liquids or gases, et cetera, et cetera? It turns out that the category of products who can fail in a way that wouldn't be covered by a full refund is actually "most products".
EDIT: Also collectables and randomised products such as trading cards.
2 day shipping costs more, they didn't even get it here in 2 days, they split my order into 8 orders, each tracked and emailed separately. I've been boycotting Amazon almost 5 years, but their competition really sucks to the point I'm thinking of going back. At least I've been able to avoid a lot of frivolous purchases for a while...
NewEgg rather infamously scammed Linus Tech tips and thousands of stories of them doing similar came out (myself included). I don't know why anyone buys from them. They will commit outright fraud and steal money from you.
Amazon at least maintains the fig leaf of plausible deniability and part of that is no questions asked returns.
Likewise. I ordered 2 sets of batteries for our cordless landline phone from NewEgg. They sent me one set. I emailed customer service and they charged me for 2 more sets and sent nothing. Never doing business with them again.
I look down on Newegg more for its marketplace strategy because it distracted from a niche it served well. By the time Amazon was doing its marketplace, it was already selling everything, so I didn't notice.
Not like I always get two day shipping anyways. They now shuffle things between warehouses so they can say it shipped in two days (from the closest warehouse) but the effective shipping time can be longer.
Are you sure? I tried at least 4 other online shopping recently, the experience is horrible compared to amazon. There are bunch issues about return that eventually easily cost me more than what prime cost me for one year.
Are you sure? I tried at least 7 other online shops recently, the experience is amazing compared to amazon.
Returns are as easy as scanning a barcode at the post office. Product reviews are meaningful and don't have bi-modal distributions. Spam and knocks offs are non-existing.
The only downside is that I pay slightly more for shipping but arguably I am biased to believe that logistics couriers should have a living wage.
Amazon is the worst of the places I've tried. They were even terrible when I had to return an item that arrived broken. I ended up without the item and without a refund.
I can't think of a single reason to recommend Amazon to anybody.
As I mentioned above, Amazon now also lists products that are shipped directly from China and take weeks. They have the tracking info from Yanwen shipping on the site, so this must be officially supported.
They often don't, like the extension cord I bought that flips my breaker when I plug it in. I don't want garbage products that were sourced from the dumpster next to a Chinese factory after they make a defective batch.
"Six letter Chinese sellers" does not automatically mean cheap shitty defective rejects. If anything, that's just stereotyping and xenophobia.
For every one of you, I'm sure there's a dozen who have had no issues with the product. And I'm sure there's been plenty of people who have had the same issue with a name brand product that was made in the same factory by the same process and people.
I'm not bagging on Chinese manufacturing in general, they build the worlds stuff, including super high quality+value items. Yet throwaway brands peddling junk that wouldn't have realistically made it onto the shelves of a big box store is a real problem on Amazon's marketplace, and other similar ones.
> I don't want garbage products that were sourced from the dumpster next to a Chinese factory after they make a defective batch.
> Yet throwaway brands peddling junk that wouldn't have realistically made it onto the shelves of a big box store is a real problem on Amazon's marketplace, and other similar ones.
Either it's a defective batch of products that would have been sold under a brand name or its junk that would have never been sold at all. Both of these can't be true of the same product.
I'd also argue that being sold at a big box store is not really indicative of much in the 21st century.
> I'd also argue that being sold at a big box store is not really indicative of much in the 21st century.
If you haven't already, I'd recommend spending some time reading about what it takes to get a product on the shelf at Wal-Mart/Target/Costco. When a companies reputation relies on what it is selling, the bar becomes a lot higher.
> "Six letter Chinese sellers" does not automatically mean cheap shitty defective rejects. If anything, that's just stereotyping and xenophobia.
I've seen people complain that the vendor contact info is obfuscated and untraceable when it's obviously the business owner's personal home address. People will say anything about Chinese vendors.
> Amazon is unusable at this point, and I don’t get how they have so many customers. Free and fast shipping is no longer exclusive to them, and there are others out there with far nicer websites and no shitty ad listings.
I only started using them in 2017 and I still do use them sparingly. But typically only for stuff I buy directly from the brand's store on Amazon.
There are a few brands I still trust. They may all be going downhill at some point and the "official store" may actually be some front for cheap copies that stole the brand name, I don't know... But so far it looks okay to me.
Anker, Osram, Makita, S.T. Dupont (for refills), etc.
Last thing I bought from Amazon from some random brand was a box of 200 firelighters, supposedly ecological. I don't know if the brand is "true" or not, I don't know if they're actually ecological or not (they look like but it may all be a scam) but... They were cheap and they do actually help greatly lighting the fireplace.
So far Anker stuff looks like it's actually Anker stuff. Makita tools do look and feels like Makita tools, etc.
That's why I keep using them.
Now I do find the experience painful and I'm 100% sure that all these identical products but branded different when I search on Amazon for, say, 316L stainless steel are stuff that are going to rust in six months.
So I'd say that people using it because even if Amazon broken, it's still convenient to find all your usual brands in one place.
> I only started using them in 2017 and I still do use them sparingly. But typically only for stuff I buy directly from the brand's store on Amazon.
Does this work? My spouse recently purchased some 3M N-95 masks directly from 3M’s Amazon store. They’re supposed to arrive in a box that has a code on it which you can enter into 3M’s website to verify it’s real and not a counterfeit. Instead they arrived in a clear plastic bag with no printing on it. There’s no code so I can only assume they’re either fakes or were pull from a larger box (which means potentially handled inappropriately). Given my spouse’s immune condition, that’s not a chance we really want to take so we’re going to throw them out.
If you have the time/effort (which I appreciate you may well not -- there's a limit to how much it feels worth trying to tilt against megacorp windmills) it would be better to return them to Amazon, because otherwise it looks to Amazon like a successful purchase. Amazon do at least make returns less hassle than some other e-commerce places I've used.
It's easy. It's easier to buy there than elsewhere because it's habit.
I stopped prime a couple years ago, I buy from other stores when I can, but sometimes you just need protein powder, spray bottles, stove gaskets, a 300 piece puzzle, and a cello stand. Amazon makes it possible to just buy one spot.
Nothing comes close to matching the ease of using amazon. In Canada if I need Kleenex I search kleenex, click buy now and it arrives to my house the same day! Sometimes I have to wait until the next day. The total time spent on the purchase is way under 1 minute.
To use costco I have to buy at least $75 or shipping is not free.
Walmart I have to fill out all my personal info and credit card info, and it's never same day shipping and sometimes there is a minimum amount I need to spend.
Driving to a store to pick up an item like this is just a giant waste of my time, gas, increases the chance of someone denting my side door in a parking lot from 0% to more than 0%.
There is no alternative that even comes close for simple items.
I have the complete opposite logic. I have to drive my gas guzzling suv to get Kleenex and a few other items OR the person delivering Amazon packages can drive a few minutes from the house down the street that is getting an Amazon package.
Amazon is not driving the Kleenex from the warehouse to my house in an empty car!
My delivery is an incremental carbon footprint. Going to the supermarket is significantly worse.
The person said to buy it the next time you happened to be at the supermarket. Not to order a few items at a time. I believe they were specifically talking about going out of your way to be environmentally conscious.
Still worth it to me to avoid the spam of a hundred small companies giving my personal data to SEO and marketing experts to spam me, and despite the improvement in time and cost for individual merchant shipping, I have not seen the reliability of that speed approach anywhere near Amazon or Walmart level. Returns and fraud resolution are also extremely streamlined.
The alternative is track down the original, individual vendor and deal with their custom sign up, shopping cart, shipping, and support on their site. Repeat with each different vendor for next purchase.
As much as Amazon hates its customers and vendors, it's got a consistent experience.
While actually doing the signup is a pain, I just use a “hide-my-email” address and cut it off after I receive the item. And I’d personally prefer to enter my credit card info every time. I once accidentally clicked on the “Yes, sign me up for Amazon Prime today, even though I’ve turned it down literally hundreds of times,” button and they immediately charged my credit card without even an “Are you sure?” Alert. Luckily I was able to cancel and get it refunded relatively easily (after 5 screens of “are you sure?” And “do you want to just pause it for a few months?”).
Almost everyone, in the UK at least, has a largely seamless experience with PayPal, Google Pay or Apple Pay these days. The shipping address gets auto-completed by interfacing with the payment processor and there's no account sign-up.
And since most of them actually outsource their websites to shopify or whoever, the user experience is basically as consistent as Amazon.
I try to patronize the original vendors. The large markets like Walmart and Target squeeze their suppliers hard to widen their margins. So if everything's about equal, I'd rather go to the source, especially if it's a mom and pop so they get a larger cut of the same money.
Cannot say enough bad things about OnTrac. They routinely throw packages at the end of our driveway instead of leaving at the porch like everyone else does.
The end of the (long) driveway is treed so sometimes we are literally hunting in the woods for our package after an OnTrac delivery.
> Amazon is unusable at this point, and I don’t get how they have so many customers.
At least in Germany, using Amazon is often the easiest way to buy copies of foreign-language (often, but not always English) textbooks about scientific topics.
- I get items in 1-2 days including fairly niche items. Some items take longer but it's clear which ones and those are just as slow elsewhere.
- I see reviews for the items and some of them aren't fake. The negative reviews with specific issues are particularly important (weak hinge, plastic parts, noisy, difficult warranty support, etc.). I know some other marketplaces either don't have reviews (ebay) or can trivially remove negative reviews (shopify sites).
I haven’t ordered anything from Amazon in several years and don’t miss it. Have stopped going to Whole Foods too. Fortunately I live in an area where I don’t need to buy everything online, I can still get most of the things I need locally, and if I don’t there’s a reputable specialty dealer, or ordering directly from the maker may be possible.
