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Launch HN: Noloco (YC S21) – Build internal tools from data without code
95 points by darraghmckay on Oct 24, 2022 | hide | past | favorite | 38 comments
Hi all, we’re Darragh and Simon, cofounders of Noloco (https://noloco.io), a no-code platform for teams to create internal tools from their business data.

Noloco lets you create internal apps from data sources like PostgreSQL, Airtable and Google Sheets without writing any code. This makes building internal tools and configuring views a lot faster than building them with code and SQL queries. It also enables non-technical team members like those in ops, customer support or sales to make changes without having to rely on engineers.

Building internal tools is time-consuming and resource intensive, not just for the original build but the ongoing maintenance as well. It’s also not the kind of work that developers typically want to do, nor usually the most valuable use of their time.

From our prior experience at tech companies like HubSpot, TripAdvisor, Revolut and Flipdish, we experienced some of the pains around internal tooling first hand. As a PM leading the Payments team in one company, Simon would have to prepare SQL scripts every week to update customer data, and hound developers to run them. Most of the time, businesses simply didn’t have the resources to invest in updating tooling.

Since launching in November 2021, we have a wide variety of customers using Noloco for internal tools. For example, one real estate company is using Noloco to manage payment approvals to contractors hired across their property portfolio. An accounting firm uses Noloco as an internal practice management tool to keep track of proposals made to clients and relevant pieces of work. And a lead generation business used Noloco to build a sophisticated CRM and customer portal to track leads provided to their customers.

Most platforms that enable building internal tools are either targeted at developers, or are ‘low-code’ and still require some coding expertise to build something useful. Other no-code platforms typically connect to more no-code backends like Google Sheets and often focus more on B2C use cases, enabling building of publicly accessible websites, for example. Often these solutions fall short when it comes to building sophisticated internal tools around data.

Noloco is a fully no-code solution focused solely on web apps. We connect to relational databases like PostgreSQL as well as no-code backends like Airtable and Google Sheets, enabling companies to build powerful apps on top of their existing business data from multiple sources. We believe that we’ve got the balance right between simplicity and enhanced configuration ability for power users who want to go deep with customisation: filtering, validation rules, database permission rules etc.

It took us a couple of pivots to arrive at this system. Initially we were building a feature-rich full-stack website and web app builder—but no one could build anything useful with it. We decided to revamp the product to make it much simpler. A few weeks later, we had our first version of our client portal builder. This was a step in the right direction, but our value proposition around centralising customer interactions in a custom-made client portal wasn’t resonating with prospects. Finally we realized that what our most successful customers wanted was to share their existing data with their team or customers. This led us to revamp the product once more to make the focus on connecting your existing data. Once you do so, we’re able to automatically build an app around your data meaning that you can launch a whole lot faster with much less of a learning curve.

The starting point for building an app with Noloco is adding data. If using an external data source like Airtable or Postgres, you provide your connection details, choose what tables you want to import and then Noloco syncs your data across. Once the initial import has finished, Noloco instantly builds an app for you around your data—including collections, forms and record pages for each database record. From there, you can customise the app and select the most appropriate layout options to display your data like tables, kanban boards, calendars and charts.

You can set database permissions by user role to control what records different users have access to and what fields they can view and edit. This means that you can confidently invite your team or customers and allow them to view, create and update data.

In case you’re interested, here’s a video of us building a Lending App from Postgres data:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVDHCvPqgsg

If you’re interested in trying the product, we recently launched our free tier and you get a free trial of all premium features when you sign up. Here’s a link to our sign-up page:

https://portals.noloco.io/register

We’d love to hear from the HN community about your experiences using and building internal tools.




No code hits a barrier when UI and DB requirements diverge. Usually for internal apps two separate teams/devs are involved, so it happens pretty soon. For instance, a simple print human readable status for the enum field in the DB needs code. Throw in REST API calls to internal/external services in this mix and the need for code is almost immediate.

Last year I built multiple Retool apps, all simple ones, but they needed code for data transformation and joins. What got in the way were operational items:

- Punch a hole in our firewall to access internal APIs.

- An internal Retool deployment was out of question since their install isn't light (requires a Postgres). Btw, Superblocks solve this problem quite elegantly by separating the control and data plane.

- Code reviews and testing were a constant challenge.


> No code hits a barrier when UI and DB requirements diverge.

Yup.

Yes and: You'll eventually have to drop down to code. For all dangly bits, that last 5% of fit and finish.

Then you're fighting the framework (tool). Completely negating the benefits of the "no code", visual design tools, patch cord programming, etc.

--

I did A LOT of data munging for healthcare. Starting in the mid aughts, that generally meant "HL7 interface" and "orchestration" engines. Whatever that's supposed to mean.

SeeBeyond (JCAPS), BizTalk, InterfaceWare, Talend, etc. A handful of others. Each was worse than the last. Though none was worse than InterSystems Caché. (And all that "Web services" nonsense like SOAP and WSDL; so awful.)

It'd take us 3 months to onboard experienced devs. Totally impractical.

--

My solution was to create simple, typesafe, bulletproof APIs and tooling.

For data munging, by analogy, it was like working with DOMs instead of wrestling with strings and innerHTML.

All the networking, queues, retry, errors, logging, tracing, etc. was done by the tool. For the developer, everything just looked like a loose file. So the same code that worked on a directory of local test files would work as-is as the service. Made coding and debugging super easy.

A bit like what AWS Lambda would look like, if it was both useful and usable.

End result was 1 or 2 weeks onboarding, depending on prior experience. New hires were writing and deploying real code to production by the end of our training. And left with all the tools and skills to be self-sufficient.

Actual "interface" code was easy enough to understand that we could do live review with BAs and customer liaisons. Make fixes together. Deploy code updates to prod in seconds.

Our improved tooling greatly improved the team "culture" of working together. Changes requests just became conference calls. Which, of course, beget a lot more additional contract work. (No good deed goes unpunished.)


It's a crowded space out there, I think Retool is a beautiful crowned beast - leader of this space - but personally I tried and failed at using it many times. It was just too much UI/complexity to even get through a simple hello world! Nonetheless good luck folks, there's definitely a market there and a lot of hungrier builders who wanna build stuff


Thanks, we totally agree. Retool and the other internal tool builders can be great, but only if you're already able to write code


I see someone has asked one of my classics for low code (how to test it thoroughly) - I'll ask the other: how is change control managed? Can another person review a change, be it in behaviour or visual, in a diff, as well as running automated tests, before a change goes live?


Good question, these are definitely on our radar and very possible with how it's currently setup.

For us, we're trying to strike the balance of nocode and lowcode so a lot of the advanced features of version control and approval flows are not a priority for a lot of our users. I imagine this will change as we grow though


Sounds similar to Retool which has had quite a lot of success in this market. How are you different?



Retool's an awesome tool but is very much aimed at developers so an understanding of SQL / Javascript is required to build dashboards using the platform.

Noloco in comparison is no-code first, meaning that you don't actually need to write any queries or know how to code at all to build different views. In fact, Noloco actually automatically creates the basic app for you once you connect your data (list views, record pages and forms). This reduces the learning curve and by being no-code first is accessible to non-developers as well.


Do you have the capability to enable automated testing of the system built with the app builder? In my experience continued success with an app builder quickly becomes dependent on some testing capability to avoid breaking things over time. This is similar to unit/integration/system tests a "regular" developer would do, but trickier since it means making that available to users at a lower technical skill level. I'm interested to hear what solution you have for this, or even just thoughts on how you might address it in the future.


The majority of our customers are not developers so the ability for them to write and run their own automated tests actually hasn't come up as a feature request before to be honest!

Like other platforms, you can of course build and test out functionality and even see what it looks like to users with different user roles before publishing to your user base.

We have workflows functionality (where you can trigger emails and webhooks when data is updated in your app or when action buttons are clicked) and that would probably strike me as one of the first areas where tests could be focused as these things happen more in the background.


That's not something we currently offer, but it's certainly something I've thought about a lot. One of the benefits of no-code tools like Noloco is that you define, very explicitly, what your app should do, display and how it behaves under certain conditions. This really does allow for completely automated integration tests. such as verifying that a filter in the UI does filter the data, verify that when User X logs in, that the permissions for that user are respected, verify that when a record meets certain conditions, a tab isn't accessible.

Defining the rules for the app could (and will) allow you to programmatically verify that it's still working as expected.

However, I think another large appeal for no-code/low-code solutions is not having to worry about testing. You can assume that because you're building your application within the rules of the platform, that everything will function as you tell it to.


I am not sure I follow your logic on why a low code tool should generate apps that don't need to worry about being tested. Even regular software _should_ function the way we tell it to but the point of testing is that sometimes this changes to no longer be true _unintentially_. If I generate a low code program with your tool that should have some desired behavior, but then someone makes changes it for it to do new things, how can I be sure the old things still work and a regression has not occurred? I think there is a need to package tests along with the app, even though its being generated somewhat at a high level.


I see what you mean, I guess the best and only way to do that would be to write integration like tests with something like Cypress, as you could with any web-app.

If you want to verify that it works how you want vs how it's setup to work, then you would be better leaning on existing tools that can do that.

My point about not needing to test it was about the implicit trust you would put in a platform like this, just like you would trust that a library you import behaves how it describes. It's not expected that you should write unit tests and integration tests to verify the behaviour of an external library


I wouldn't write unit tests for an external library but any integration test will implicitly test any external libraries that are in the code path. That's one of the points of integration tests - catching cases where the underlying code still works as it's supposed to but the way it's supposed to work has changed. Whether it's an external library or code you wrote, your goal is to test that all the pieces still fit together like they're supposed to.

In the case of something like Noloco, I imagine it would be more like "we need to change this DB schema, can we update the schema in a test environment and make sure that we didn't break our Noloco app?" There's nothing to unit test there but if you don't have a solid set of integration and e2e tests then you might have a form that's halfway through a flow that suddenly stops working and you don't notice until your conversions crater to zero.


Boom. Thank you for bringing my abstract concern into the real world.


Love the domain "noloco.io", is this an intentional nod / reference to "SoMoLo" (as in Social, Mobile, Local) from the show Silicon Valley?


Haha first time someone made that connection! It's more around no-code / low-code, but we also like how it means 'not crazy' in Spanish.

Another benefit is that it's generally easy to spell as well, which loads of businesses have a problem with when it comes to search.


I love the name. And I immediately read it as the Spanish "no loco"


Thanks! Definitely somewhat (after being a play on no/lo code obviously). I'd be lying if I said that scene wasn't one of the first things I thought of after coming up with the name.


I would guess No-Low-Code


The German TLD seems to be available.


Do you mean noloco.de? We actually do own that. I just need to setup a redirect


Yep, that's what I meant. Nice job.


The price and active user limit are too prohibitive. Also, I wish someone would build a product like this for people to build websites/SaaS with instead of yet another service for companies to build internal tools. The market is saturated with options like this for the enterprise.



To be fair, integrating with enterprise SAML isn’t zero-effort. There are engineers/IT on both sides going back and forth, and the provider is going to have to deploy a test environment for the customer, possibly debug things there, then there’ll be questions to answer about federation etc…

I wouldn’t do it for free, either.

But standardized SSO like Google or (presumably) Office 365 - yeah there shouldn’t be a tax on that.


We actually do offer Google Sign-In as an option across all plans that users can enable for their apps (I know this probably isn't clear on the website).


Agreed. Not having SSO is not a show stopper for me, but if there is an alternative with SSO included at a fair price (as there are with other no-code tools), I'd go with that instead.



How does this compare with some of the more 'enterprise' style tools like Alteryx? What would you say are the main differentiators?


Alteryx in particular seems to focus more on analytics. You can build dashboards and charts with Noloco but our focus is more on CRUD operations - enabling you to give other team members access to data and control the permissions they have (read-only, update, create records) via permission rules at database level.

In general, we tend to see that existing enterprise-focused tools tend to be more low-code rather than no-code and often more aimed at developers rather than non-developers.


Disclaimer: I work for Alteryx

We're launching a product early next year that can do all the things you listed + more. It's built on top of users Workflows and the rest of the Cloud platform, but it's an exciting AppBuilding experience once you've done the Analytics part. https://www.alteryx.com/products/alteryx-appbuilder


Got it, that makes sense. Thank you and good luck!


$240/mo for a starter plan is a bit salty for such a tool, isn't it?


Strategy is simple. Get free users and then go for Mid-Tier/Enterprise. No startups paying $15/Month stuff. I have seen this with others and it seems to be a working strategy ?


I see where you're coming from - we actually previously had cheaper plans but decided to remove them in favour of a Free plan which we introduced last month. We want people to use the platform, see the value they can get from it and then upgrade when they are ready (and content about the impact their apps are having in their organisation).


is someone keeping track of all the no/low-code platform YC invested in?




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