All the mainstream media said iraq has WMDs... it was basically on every european and american tv channel in preparation for the war. Once before that, we heard that iraqi soldiers killed babies... that was a "fun" one too...
The same media also reported of the "Ghost of kiyev".. so yeah... surely we must believe them "now".
> Re “the Ukrainian minister who made those lies up,” I’d also like a name for that. Russian atrocities have been reported broadly across many outlets, and even Russian media is clamoring that it’s not brutal enough.
> Lawmaker Pavlo Frolov said Ms. Denisova was also accused of making insensitive and unverifiable statements about alleged Russian sex crimes and spending too much time in Western Europe during the invasion.
> “The unclear focus of the Ombudsman's media work on the numerous details of ‘sexual crimes committed in an unnatural way’ and ‘rape of children’ in the occupied territories that could not be confirmed by evidence, only harmed Ukraine,” Mr. Frolov said in a Facebook post.
Ah yes the spooky “mainstream media” which seems always to somehow say the opposite of what you believe. This is not an addressable concern to be honest. It’s like complaining about “the elites.” Just needs to be more specific.
Also your evidence of Ukraine lying about war crimes is the firing of a woman who lied about war crimes? Sure, people lie, but then that obviously prompts the question of why haven’t all the other people who have been discussing Russian crimes been fired as well (since, as you’re implying, the crimes are fake?)
> Ah yes the spooky “mainstream media” which seems always to somehow say the opposite of what you believe
That 'spooky' mainstream media lied about babies in incubators in Iraq, then nonexistent WMDs, then about freedom-loving Libyan rebels, then freedom-loving Syrian rebels, and now they are telling other things in the latest foreign policy project.
Why the hell are you people even giving them any credibility, leaving aside actually believing them? Where does the buck stop?
The corporate media not lying about matters that do not touch the economy, military or the foreign policy does NOT make them trustworthy in other matters.
> why haven’t all the other people who have been discussing Russian crimes
She was not fired for 'discussing'. She was fired for an outrageous lie that she produced as the person responsible for the official position of the government.
> Also your evidence of Ukraine lying about war crimes is the firing of a woman who lied about war crimes?
Amazing how you contort actual evidence of lying by an administration from the highest levels to a proof of it being honest.
Mental gymnastics. Apparently that's what enables you people to believe your establishments.
It's really silly to assume that everyone who disagrees with you is just suckling from "the mainstream media" while you are blessed with the special information sources that provide you The Truth. Who said I'm giving the media any credibility?
> She was not fired for...
This is a non sequitur so I don't really know what to say here. Try re-reading what I had said.
> Amazing how you contort...
Well it wasn't the highest levels lol. It was a few rungs down from the highest level, and the highest level then held that lower level responsible for its misbehavior. That's exactly what you'd expect to see from an institution holding itself to a high bar.
I'm saying that mainstream media has an agenda and is showing us propaganda.
The mainstream media told us about dead babies in iraq, told us about WMDs and told us about nazis in ukraine ( https://i.imgur.com/mRAaOo0.jpg ). Then the war started, and suddenly nazis are a conspiracy theory.
It's a war, shit happens, media focuses on every dead civilian who died because of russians, and ignores all the dead civilians killed by american bombs, even at weddings in countries US is not even at war with, and it ignores all the dead civilians killed by ukranians, and it ignores all the dead civilians killed by israelis, etc.
No one is saying the Nazis thing is “a conspiracy theory.” They’re saying they don’t care. There are neo-nazi elements in every country’s military, especially in Europe. That doesn’t mean Nazis are okay, nor does it mean all of those countries which have those elements are illegitimate and no longer have a right to self-defense.
This point is never raised as an effort to get said Nazis out of combat/prevalence (in which case, sure, let’s do it). It’s just used to suggest we shouldn’t be supporting a democratic ally who got invaded by an autocratic warlord with imperial motives.
There was a great article a few years ago about the huge Neo-Nazi element in the German military. It’s a huge problem. It’s bad. Does this mean we need to allow Russia to roll tanks into Berlin and put up a wall again? That’s why you’re getting dismissed so readily that you think it’s because people believe it’s a “conspiracy theory.” It’s a completely meaningless point. It has no bearing on the situation whatsoever.
> No one is saying the Nazis thing is “a conspiracy theory.” They’re saying they don’t care. There are neo-nazi elements in every country’s military, especially in Europe
These are not 'Neonazi elements'. They are actual Nazi brigades comprised of actual nazis who know their theory, who think that they are ubermensch and everyone else either should be enslaved or killed. They are not your average skinhead occasionally attacking immigrants.
And yeah, the media is now past saying that Nazis are a conspiracy theory - that was until a few months ago. Because the Nazis were unrepentant in their Nazism, now the media is whitewashing them.
Yes, they are neo-Nazi elements. Given that the Nazi political party no longer exists, anyone who adheres to their ideology is described as a neo-Nazi. It has nothing to do with whether they "know their theory," and I'm a bit confused as to what you think neo-Nazis believe if thinking you're ubermensch makes you an actual Nazi. All neo-Nazis believe those things - that's what it means to be a neo-Nazi!
I'd be curious for any source where any outlet with a readership above, say 1MM people, said that neo-Nazi battalions don't exist and that it's a conspiracy theory. Surely if "the mainstream media" was all about this position, you'll be able to find a source? I just looked and I couldn't find even one.
And before you go ahead and trick yourself in this search for sources: there are conspiracy theories that the upper echelons of Ukraine's national government is comprised of neo-Nazis. This is referred to as a conspiracy theory because it is.
All the mainstream media said iraq has WMDs... it was basically on every european and american tv channel in preparation for the war. Once before that, we heard that iraqi soldiers killed babies... that was a "fun" one too...
Even tony blair admited it (the WMDs) was a lie: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/06/chilcot-ton...
The same media also reported of the "Ghost of kiyev".. so yeah... surely we must believe them "now".
> Re “the Ukrainian minister who made those lies up,” I’d also like a name for that. Russian atrocities have been reported broadly across many outlets, and even Russian media is clamoring that it’s not brutal enough.
https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/russia-ukraine-latest-news-...
> Lawmaker Pavlo Frolov said Ms. Denisova was also accused of making insensitive and unverifiable statements about alleged Russian sex crimes and spending too much time in Western Europe during the invasion.
> “The unclear focus of the Ombudsman's media work on the numerous details of ‘sexual crimes committed in an unnatural way’ and ‘rape of children’ in the occupied territories that could not be confirmed by evidence, only harmed Ukraine,” Mr. Frolov said in a Facebook post.