Can y’all show some dignity and not turn every thread where either of your countries are mentioned into bitching and whining? Show some dignity and surface the good in your respective countries. I know the eu conditioned you into thinking the two are do nothing sources of cheap labour and perpetual poverty. Both countries are orders of magnitude more developed, and indeed less corrupt and more democratic, than say india or russia yet you dont see people of those countries constantly bitch. The past is a done deal. Was there anything you can build upon? I know in romania there was a bit of innovation even under communism, including in electronics. Old industries died because of poor management and geopolitics. I know the tim-s and hc computers were popular in romanian schools, i grew up there and we did programming from an early age. If you ate roots feed by “mafias” i feel sorry for you but thats not everything and shouldn't dominate your lives.