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Ok then. Can we funnel all the marketing, spin and hype towards existing public transport?



Serious question - how would you actually spin and hype something that already exists?

It just reminds me of that old soviet-era joke that goes something like this:

First grade teacher in Moscow: "Kids, today I want to teach you all about how life is great in the Soviet Union. In the Soviet Union we have the tastiest food, the most fun toys, the most interesting shows ..."

Kids: "Oh, teacher, that sounds amazing, can we please go visit the Soviet Union?"


You realise all these new fangled things are old things with a different spin.

The boring company makes something worse than the underground. Evtol is basically helicopters, etc.


If there is an hourly train one could say there are 60 moments at which one could chose to travel. In the worse one you've missed it by 0-1 min. It seems reasonable to add the average 30 min to the travel time + margins.

One could similarly say there are 60 moments to arrive in an hour. Your appointment could live at the most unfortunate. It seems reasonable to add the average 30 min to the trip again.

If the train stops a lot it might be close to accelerating and decelerating most of the time. It seems reasonable to lose half the possible for speed.

If it doesn't stop a lot it might take a long time to get to the station.

If you need to take 2 trains you might have to wait for the second.

Buses and taxis stop far away from the train and traffic is unpredictable.

No matter how fast the train is, it can still take a long time to get places.

There are countless puzzles left to solve.


That is a solved puzzle, public transport is not a new concept, most city dwellers outside of the US rely on it.

From the passenger point of view, you simply plan your travel if the train only comes once an hour. Nobody arrives at random to such an infrequent mode of transportation. Once an hour probably means it's intercity travel.

From the networks point of view: you constantly monitor travel patterns and optimise frequencies, connections, train lengths etc. With driverless trains the trade-offs are fewer, hence you never need to worry about when the next Copenhagen metro comes.


You lost me at “plan your travel”. Logistically, public transportation is awful. You can’t bring any cargo with you, you can’t tow anything, you need to buy an expensive ticket for each person (Even a compact car can fit 5 people), trains don’t turn around if you have a family emergency, and the comfort level of the most advanced trains in Europe and Japan frankly sucks compared to even a mid-level SUV in the most basic trim.

Don’t get me wrong, public transportation is an interesting novelty. But for short trips it’s worse than a car, and for long trips it’s inferior to an airplane. There’s a sweet spot where it works if you’re trying to beat commuter traffic but I’d say that’s about it. The people trying to spend billions to build out these networks have an agenda and frankly I’d prefer if we just fixed our roads and airports.


It’s only a novelty in the US. In other rich countries where people don’t have a car fetish it’s just the most practical and comfortable way to get to work.

Obviously if you need to tow something you can’t use the metro, but that’s a very rare need on the whole. Then you take the car, cursing traffic and the parking situation.

Here in Copenhagen you’ll often see carpenters and similar with cargo bikes, so it’s not like you always need a huge SUV to move some tools, or indeed children.

Cars are almost never the fastest way to get somewhere in a city. Americans love them for cultural reasons, not because it’s practical. Like in poor countries cars are a still a symbol of freedom and wealth in the US, most of the rich world has moved on from that mindset.


Helicopters are locked out of many markets by noise and worries about safety of bystanders. The promise of eVTOLs is access to those.


Why are evtols safer than helicopters for bystanders? They both have the spinny blady things.

Re noise, most of the sound comes from the rotors rather than the engine. It's not obvious to me that an evtol craft could significantly improve this.

There seems to be an assumption that evtol == multiple ducted fans. This isn't necessarily the case. And electric helicopter would be evtol. Any specific design is going to have different tradeoffs. Eg more motors to fail.


It's really funny that eVTOL solves nothing, but funded


You are right about Musk's silly tunnels, but VTOL is much better than helicopters. They combine the convenient landing and taking off of helicopters with the fuel economy of fixed wing flight, i.e. airplanes. If it can be made electric then even better.


Where does the fuel economy come from? What design are we talking about?


Fixed wing aircraft are of course much more efficient than helicopters, so the best combo is really a vtol, that has fixed wings but can land vertically.


Not Just Bikes does it well


I suppose you mean this YouTube channel - https://www.youtube.com/c/notjustbikes ?

It seems that it's hyping the idea of having good public transport, but that doesn't address the chicken-and-egg problem, does it? What I mean is, that most cities seem to have mediocre public transport, and people don't want to use it, so proponents of public transport can't get the budgets to improve it, because there's demonstrably low usage. So how do you use a limited budget to "hype and spin" the existing public transport to prove that your particular city would benefit from higher investment in public transport?

The only solution I see is to actually go and set up a new and better route, to prove that your city does in fact have demand for public transport.


I thought it was a pun on spinning.




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