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I'm a software developer with over four decades of experience under my belt in every environment you can imagine - startups, manufacturing company, utility, retail, banking, education - and here's a trend I've noticed in that time: many languages come, a few stick, and they're slow to fade away. Very few have stuck around for decades. Today's darling is tomorrow's pariah. Cobol, C/C++, and Java are great examples of that.

Where is Rust? It's behind Cobol on the TIOBE index. That puts things into perspective. I remember when C took the world by storm in the early 80's. That was a result of severely underpowered 8 bit and 16 bit computer where your only alternative for getting any performance was to write in assembly. C's ability to be used as a high-level assembler were its killer feature.

Java had a similar ascendancy in the 90's. There were several widely-available CPU architectures that were popular at the time and it's ability to write-once, run everywhere with acceptable performance was its killer feature. It certainly didn't hurt that it borrowed heavily from C's syntax.

What is Rust's killer feature that will compel widespread adoption? The borrow checker? I don't think so, and the market doesn't appear to think so either. To wit, both C and Java enjoyed a meteoric rise within five years of their release to the public. Meanwhile Rust is nearly eight years old and yet still is lagging behind Cobol. I don't see the situation being much different two years from now when Rust is 10 years old.

I have a couple of questions then. Why do you think Rust will ever experience widespread adoption? Assuming it won't (which appears to be the case), for what programming communities would you expect for Rust to have widespread adoption?




According to TIOBE, C has lost 60% of its popularity between 2015 and 2017, and then doubled next year. What's more likely: that a 40-year-old language C had such a massive sudden swing, or that TIOBE data is garbage and measures search engine's algorithms, not language relevance?

https://blog.nindalf.com/posts/stop-citing-tiobe/

BTW: According to the TIOBE horoscope Rust is way ahead of TypeScript and Bash.


I don't see the 60% drop in popularity between 2015 and 2017 as you claim (see https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index). C has never not been in the top 5 languages used since the index was created 35 years ago. There have been numerous cycles where it's been #1. There's been very little volatility in the top 10 for the past 10 years, as opposed to the 25-50 ranked languages where Rust resides which has considerably more volatility in their rankings. That's why a lot of people consider anything beyond the top 25 to be just noise.


The Ratings % line for C: Nov 7 2015 = 17.15%, Aug 2 2017 = 6.48%

C# has jumped from 0.77% in Mar 2020 to 4.75% in Apr 2022. One month, 6x increase.

Even if you just take relative rankings, they're also total nonsense: TypeScript is 40th, behind Prolog, Visual Fox Pro, Dart, and Rust.


Yeah, that's why many people treat everything beyond the top 25 as noise. There's a lot of churn there.


TypeScript is the 8th most popular language according to Redmonk. TIOBE has issues even in the top 10, and +/- 60% errors bars on their top 2 language!

It's not a problem of noisy data for the long tail languages. It's just wrong data. It's a poor unstable proxy (subject to proprietary query interpretation and anti-spam algorithms that vary over time, query terms don't reflect colloquial names, and name mentions aren't usage), and it's a misrepresentation of the data (searches include historical documents, which is not a reflection of current usage). It's all noise, no signal.


I broadly agree with you that there are many fads in the industry that are touted as the "next big thing" only to fade into obscurity a decade later. But I don't think Rust is one of those, and the reason doesn't even have anything to do with what the language can or cannot do.

No, it's because all the big players in the industry are very involved. So, on one hand, it's not one company's pet project, like Java was - and yet it's big enough that "no-one ever got fired for buying IBM" kind of reasoning is already starting to show up. And I don't think anyone is likely to back out at this point given the effort already spent. For better or worse, this is what we've bet the industry on.

(To be clear, I think the language is actually great by itself, and it's good to see something striving to be safe-by-default to fill that spot in the industry. But let's not fool ourselves when it comes to programming languages winning on some abstract merits, outside of the broader economic context.)




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