I am from latin america and at least neither China nor Russia have participated in coup d'etat to install a military junta to then torture and massacre anyone slightly left of the US "Democratic" Party.
China has learned from US policies and has instead opted for more insidious and less "noisy" approaches like hard to repay soft-loans, mass buying of agricultural lands, starting vice businesses like casinos etc which also result in societal changes once the businesses started by Chinese start bringing a sizable influx of Chinese to work in them. See northwest Laos for a direct example (this is not an armchair comment - I have relations there and have seen the changes firsthand over the decade during numerous visits).
Which is fairly tame in terms of securing geopolitical influence and enables more win-win arrangments. Especially with respect to Laos - a landlocked country with (to be blunt) zero long term development prospects. Laos per capital GDP growth has been on pace with booming Vietnam that has access to outsource manufacturing and maritime trade. Laos should be worse off than Cambodia that has 60% of current Laos per capita GDP. Even their largest export/growth sector - hydropower to Thailand is enabled by PRC (not to sound patronizing). PRC infra projects setup Laos to be the battery of region + rail connectivity for other exports = only real viable of short/medium term growth strategy for a undeveloped landlocked country with poor human development. Go look up gdp per capita trends of ASEAN since 2000 when PRC growth started blowing up, also LATM during same period. You'll be hard pressed to find any country whose per capita GDP increased by 8x like Laos. Many are luck with half that. As for societal changes on border regions that benefits from flow of migrant and economic development, that's what happens when countries get richer - things change. If you think that's a bad deal then I'm curious if you can find a better one, especially for a land locked country with no maritime access.
Just repeating "landlocked country" twenty times doesn't paint the clearest picture. They have a lot of untapped mineral resources. It has never been rich but people have had organic means of growth like agriculture. Sure it was never blistering growth but it was steady progress that lifted everyone. Once the PRC money started to flow, they basically bought the agricultural lands and now people who used to own the lands are working as laborers in what used to be their own land. Sure they got that initial money but they never knew how to handle that - so they blew it in the casinos, also operated by the PRC or in drugs (which were always a problem, it being the Golden Triangle area) or other things like tricked-out pickup trucks. Everybody is running after that quick PRC cash and the culture is undergoing rapid changes; signboards are in Mandarin, people prefer to learn Mandarin (even though it is English that connects them to a wider part of the world). Micro level societal changes are more subtle and hard to quantify. The country is basically becoming an extension arm of China
It is easy to look everything through the lens of GDP but it is a poor measure of healthiness of a society from sociological perspective.
Your comment reflects typical nostalgic time bubble lamentation about culture "decline" due to rapid development change. Lots of older gen Chinese miss Mao's China too and complain about the decadence and corruption caused by new wealth. Meanwhile most of country eager to dig themselves out of subsistence are running after quick growth cash and pickup trucks. It sucks being poor.
> Just repeating "landlocked country" twenty times doesn't paint the clearest picture.
...
>untapped mineral resource
Being landlocked is one of the major development traps, it's highly relevant. And the point is Laos is landlocked AND underdevelopped in both infra and human capita. They're not going to be Switzerland without generations of development, if ever. All those untapped resources can't be economically exported relative to sea trade... incidentally why PRC rail development in Laos also game changer. Improves economics of rare metals (gold, Laos other huge export) but less for bulk cargo like agriculture. Laos has zero prospect for being an ag-commodity export power. The most profitable specialty ag trade had export potential of something like 600M. There's simply a ceiling on how much ag can uplift, it's why largest growth sector in last 20 years is industry, which requires capital investments, for a poor country like Laos, it means FDI and period of upheaval caused by new wealth and modes of exploitation.
> never knew how to handle that
Yeah that's what happens to nouvel rich everywhere. That's a sign of development. Laos is not usefully connected to English sphere via geography... again they're landlocked and only large economic connector is PRC. If people want to make money therer it's only prudent to learn Chinese and which will increase integration, especially in border regions. Why would Laos look to rest of world when the fastest growing region is Asia? Learning English is one way street to being brain drained and losing your best.
> GDP but it is a poor measure of healthiness of a society
This is true, ergo why Xi prioritized correcting the excesses of Deng's unbalanced growth that had caused huge problematic culture shifts. Every country that's gone through rapid growth will need manage that transition. Per capita GDP is strongly correlated to Human Development Index for a reason, you need money to make a healthy, educated, productive society. At end of day Laos/PRC relationship enables Laos to have more omney than her geography would otherwise enable. It's not upper income but it's a path out of subsistence if managed properly by Vientiane, which they may absolutely fail at.
Cherry picking what? The op was about Laos, I talked about Laos. Debt trap meme / lie has been debunked by many academics, it's a myth. PRC refinances / renegotiate. It would be really nice for PRC security posture if they actually siezed these ports to build naval bases to gain foothold in indopac, but so far overriding geopolitical interest has been commercial / economic and for a intiative as large as BROR, some of them do poorly. It's the price of exporting massive infra projects around the world to find new markets for domestic overcapacity.
I am from eastern Europe and right now Russia is invading a democratic country to install its own government, tortures and massacres everyone left and right.
More like "US during British Colonial Times" != "USA Today", for starters USA during Reagan and USA today have the same constitution and the same governmental system even if specific laws and lawmakers have changed
This is very true. Whereas the USSR was run by one man who controlled the state security apparatus, and so controlled the country as an autocrat, Russia is run by a man who controls the country as an autocrat, having controlled the state security apparatus.
No? We finally had a president that hasn't started a new war (trump) and we are on track to having a president that hasn't started a new war and has withdrawn troops from one war. Things are changing.
Russia definitely has, just not as much in your backyard. China hasn't, but that's probably because the last time they tried that they got their ass handed to them by a country that had just been savagely attacked by (but also defeated) the us. Also it has been slowly encroaching on India and bhutan territory. China definitely declares it's intent to export it's style of polity around the world. And that does include torturing and disappearing citizens that are supposed to be on their own watch.
What was once a beautiful nation is now rife with crime, even the military of all things is told not to have cell phones out by stop lights because somebody will swing on by on a motorcycle and hijack the phone. From the darn military! Still surprised they get away with it.
I also remember hearing from a relative that Chavez would basically bring Cuban doctors over from Cuba.
Absolutely nothing about the historical bad behaviour of the US in Central and South America has any bearing on the threat the CCP poses to a billion Chinese and the world today. Nothing.
Not their actions in Latin America, but the USA did parttake in some extreme violence in Asia about 75 years ago that could be blamed for the CCP gaining power in the first place.
I'm not sure Imperial Japanese rule would be so much better, though.
Actually, they have a lot to do with each other, as the violence that the United States did to Central and South America was always justified with anticommunist rhetoric, like this. A Peter Kingsley quote, more about spiritual perception, also applies to the political:
"The only possible way to understand is by standing back in the stillness that lies underneath thinking and sees things as they really are. It's like watching hundreds of colors, each of them trying to persuade you it happens to be the most important one-then stepping back and seeing they all form a single rainbow. Thoughts in themselves are always leading to division and separation. But all thoughts, together, are a single whole." (from "Reality")
Russia has put down multiple popular uprisings within its sphere - Belarus, Kazakhstan. Invaded Georgia, and Ukraine to effect regime change. And looks to be behind the Coup in Mali and one in Montenegro.
China has supported violent Juntas in Myanmar, and Sudan. It has essentially performed a coup in Hong Kong.
And of course it loves supplying weapons to latin countries via Norinco. And it's doing economic damage and putting more of those countries in debt, just like it took Hambantota International Port from Sri Lanka.
Both are racking up kills elsewhere in Africa too.
> This is shown to be a myth, as some other comments here suggested.
There have certainly been a bunch of opinion pieces expressing that opinion coming out at the same time. Which is incredibly weird, unless... oh right, opinions can be bought and China has a history of doing that.
The case is not that such pieces appearing in uniform in short period of time.
The case is that western media is so fixitated on negative coverage on China, so much so that any positive or neutral coverage will be seen as carefully manipulated campaign.
Every thread of China topic, here on HN, will see your type of comments consistently.
The real mystery is not that there is positive or neutral report on China.
The real mystery is why US people seem cannot use their brain on China topics...
Chinese media is state controlled, and no alternative is possible. If they wanted credible positive reporting, then they have only themselves to blame.
The mystery is why you think that I think you are American.
> There have certainly been a bunch of opinion pieces expressing that opinion coming out at the same time.
I was talking about English media.
That's a reasonable assumption, since you are commenting on the HN comments, which is part of English media, and heavily influenced by mainstream English media, obviously.
You are an american or not is not relevant.
> If they wanted credible positive reporting, then they have only themselves to blame.
Wow.
Let's jail the SoB based on media reports.
This is what you suggest, right?
Ah yes, also curiously enough the US is way more prone to completely embargo Cuba and Venezuela but neither Russia nor China. (Due to political-economic reasons and not moral/ethical ones)
Edit: profile I am replying to has the following in their about section: "about: I play music and I code videogames. I live in Brighton, UK." so assuming the "hi from venezuela" was sarcastic.
I'm currently living the dictatorship in Venezuela. Ask me if you think Ciro's opinion is not valid, for whatever reason. (Don't know him btw. Epale Ciro!)
¿Crees que solo hay dictaduras bajo gobiernos anti-capitalistas o es algo en donde por ejemplo Qatar (o Reino Unido) siendo monarquías constitucionales podrían superar en autoritarismo?
That's because Latin America is nowhere near China or Russia. They aren't going to go half way around the world to harass Latin Americans. But if Latin America was in the place of Hong Kong, Laos, or Ukraine they wouldn't enjoy the same peace
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2khAmMTAjI