Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login

This is my way of flagging an unflaggable post.

Hell, I love memes, Reddit, drinking, partying, etc.

But is that a professional or appropriate job advert for HN? Do we want to be a community which actively cultivates a 'no girls allowed' policy?




"Do we want to be a community which actively cultivates a 'no girls allowed' policy?"

That's not fair. An unwise attempt at humor isn't actively cultivating such a policy. It may be inadvertently fostering such an environment, but so many comments are busy casting aspersions on the job poster without addressing that issue.


Humor sometimes conveys the real meaning- and in this job post, it is undeniably, No Girls Allowed. Those that think "brogrammer" means anything more deep or nuanced is giving the poster a whole lot of leeway. If they wanted a more diverse (age, sex, even race) they'd convey a different culture.

This is one of those things in the Valley that I really hate (I'm a ho-grammer). The immature attitude - up there with "rockstar" postings. Is there anything in the ad about the tech? Oh right, because it's "stealth" (another annoying Valley thing). I am also wary of a company that feels the need to state that programmers get some sleep. Really? The reality is that they're going to get tons of applicants because it's a recession. The applicants are going to be eager and inexperienced, probably not from here. The poster didn't evenhave to use brogrammer to get 95% men applying- that's roughly the % of men in the CA-Bay Area industry.

The new hires are going to work for a bit, the start-up will fizzle to nothing, but in the meantime the brogrammer will learn how to party in SF, go to strip clubs, get crunk, work hungover, and write passable code. He'd doubtless leave with a few great connections, and then starting or join another startup, where he'll fondly remember the ad that got him here and post a similar one. A kid just out of a midwestern school will see it and buy a cheap one-way ticket to SF. Like begets like (another thing that annoys me about SV). The monoculture continues.


The subtle comments DO cultivate such a policy. Sexism in its worst form isn't overt - it is the small comments that are harmful.


I think this is an example of people not accepting responsibility where its due. Inadvertently fostering an environment of sexism and monoculture is as destructive as intentionally doing so. I understand that the intentions may be different but the result is the same.

Thus, it is the responsibility of every person in every industry to work hard to intentionally work against sexism or racism or discrimination of any kind (intentional, unintentional, or implied).

For better or for worse, when you have an industry as heavily male dominated as the tech one, it takes more active work to counteract the natural tendency of the industry to a masculine culture.

I am on a mailing list that spent a fair amount of time discussing the recent dust up over sexually explicit slides at the EECI conference.

One respondent wrote to the list saying that as an employee of the federal government she finds all of these controversies sort of amazing (in a negative way) since employees of the federal govt all have a very clear understanding of what is and isn't appropriate and would never show slides with sexually explicit material.

I know that everyone probably just read "Fed govt" and thought "PC, boring, and miserable" but as a women in tech, I would LOVE it if less of my time could go into being angry and frustrated, or spent trying to educate people on why things are offensive, and we could all just spend more time doing the work we are here to do: making cool technology.


I can't find the post, I think it was taken down or some such. In any case I've seen some quotes that clearly state "non-bros" are welcome to apply as well. In my opinion, (and I am only playing devil's advocate.)

If you're asking if they were sexist. (once again I haven't read it nor can I find it, I'm going off what everyone else has quoted.) Then it would seem safe to say no, what with them saying that it's not only "brogrammers" that can apply. I would also go as far to say that this post should be considered good if nothing else then the brutal honesty given. They party, they get "crunk" they brogram, which is to say they are comrades that support each other and like minded individuals. Is that bad? Not inherently so. Is it immature? I think they made sure everyone knew that was the case.

Also I forgot this part, to answer the question posted, (my bad.)

Do we want a community of people that supports a no girl allowed rule? Um hell no, I like women, generally they have ideas that I don't consider because I'm a male, my DNA and my social upbringing made me who I am, which is different then who anyone else is. I don't feel like that's what they were trying to do though.


Click the "link" button on the post. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3168226 Then you can flag it.




Consider applying for YC's Spring batch! Applications are open till Feb 11.

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: