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> That's why we should support them or else we will continue walking backwards.

I would love to, but the reality is that unless you're in the Android/iOS duopoly ecosystem, you're increasingly unable to participate in some parts of society. Talking to people, banking, food delivery, parking, public transport...




Linux on the desktop was similar to that in early 2000's: hardware, software and services were frequently not compatible. The IE monopoly made things even worse. Pioneers suffered, there are still some problems, but the landscape changed drastically because of those people. Some pioneers must be willing to change the world and pay the price for that.


In short, be the change you wish to see in the world. If you want there to be a viable competitor to Chrome, use Firefox. If you want there to be a viable competitor to Apple and Google (and you have the cash), buy a Librem 5. The alternatives are out there, begging to be used.

As an active developer in a programming language with a small ecosystem, I scream this to the clouds all day: great software doesn't become well-supported until somebody has the gall to use it.


> If you want there to be a viable competitor to Apple and Google (and you have the cash), buy a Librem 5.

No thank you, I will never buy or use any hardware from Purism. They are openly hypocritical and I have zero trust for them.

Quoting from: https://puri.sm/posts/librem5-solving-the-first-fsf-ryf-hurd...

> The RYF has a “secondary processor” exclusion that can be granted on a case by case basis. We will leverage this exclusion to load and train the DDR PHY on the i.MX 8. We will use a secondary processor to keep binary blobs out of u-boot and the kernel.

Add extra silicon, to lock the user out of updating the firmware. Because the FSF will grant you an arbitrary badge of honour if the firmware is closed source, but not user-updatable. This is some next-level bullshit.

This is on top of the hardware being utter crap in terms of protecting user security or privacy; marcan_42 explains it quite well: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30761886

If you want a reasonable trade-off between freedom and security, GrapheneOS is actually the only viable contender I'm aware of.

> If you want there to be a viable competitor to Chrome, use Firefox.

The IE monopoly was broken, because Mozilla made a better product. Also, it took Chrome to fully displace IE.

This is why FOSS can't "win". You have to have a better product, not just a feel-good badge. Look at the FOSS projects out there that are actually successful: they all have a good product strategy behind them. But for most FOSS activists, designing a better product is apparently much harder than indoctrination.


Keep in mind I was spitballing. Don't take the Librem example too seriously- I didn't know about that stuff, and it certainly changes the way I view Purism.

> This is why FOSS can't "win".

I'm not really sure what "win" means in this context. If "winning" is what Chrome is doing right now, I don't want Firefox to "win" either. Competition is good.

If your argument here is that FOSS can't produce a "better" product, Firefox is as much a counterpoint now as it was when it broke the IE hegemony. For the user, it's just as good as Chrome. It even provides some features Chrome doesn't have (for example, popping out videos and actually-good ad block). Nobody cares about how chrome is 50% (i.e. 0.8ms) faster at responding to thing X.


> Don't take the Librem example too seriously- I didn't know about that stuff, and it certainly changes the way I view Purism.

This is the problem. You advise on something, but you barely look beneath the surface.

> If "winning" is what Chrome is doing right now, I don't want Firefox to "win" either. Competition is good.

Please take a good look at what Mozilla has been busy with, this past decade or so.

https://www.jwz.org/blog/2022/01/mozilla-blinked/ https://www.jwz.org/blog/2020/09/this-is-a-pretty-dire-asses... https://www.jwz.org/blog/2018/12/mozilla-mourns-microsoft/ https://venturebeat.com/2015/06/09/mozilla-responds-to-firef... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_OS

All this happened while Firefox struggled to modernise the rendering engine, introduce process isolation, address stability and performance issues... Yes I know Quantum eventually delivered on these - but it was too little, too late, and still isn't great.

The only reason Mozilla is still alive, is because Google is throwing money at them - to avoid too much attention from regulators looking at Chrome's market share.

> Nobody cares about how chrome is 50% (i.e. 0.8ms) faster at responding to thing X.

I care. Just put it on any older hardware. Like my 2012 Thinkpad (3rd gen i5; OpenBSD), or my partner's 2017 MBP (infamous for its poor thermal design), running Firefox on either is a miserable experience compared to Iridium (Chromium fork) or Safari. The hardware is still pretty good for our needs.

Don't get me wrong: I dislike Chrome just as much as you do. I want to like Firefox, and I do agree with Mozilla's stated goals and values. But I won't (and wouldn't advise anyone to) personally suffer over this, in fact doing so is doing Mozilla a disservice - they need to get the message, fix their act, and deliver a better product; rather than blowing cash on CEO bonuses, sealing deals to screw their users, or engaging in planet-incinerating ponzi schemes.




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