If we imagine a study where the users have never had either I.V. caffeine nor cocaine, well, how are you supposed to reliably distinguish between two stimulants hitting your heart and brain directly, without passing through any sort of blood brain barrier, when having that experience for the first time?
Now, it would be a useless study for us. But not useless for the chucklehead who padded his or her CV with it.
Curious - do you have something to back that up? Caffeine is pretty toxic (
I think the LD50 is something like 200 mg/KG of body weight. 20 grams would kill most people) and I don't find it surprising that an IV mix would have pretty serious effects.
The question is whether the two are somehow indistinguishable (to 80% of people, at least).
IV bleach would also have pretty serious effects, but likely no one would confuse it for cocaine.
The onus is on inter_netuser to provide evidence for the claim, not for pennaMann to refute it. I would imagine that literally no study exists comparing the effects of intravenous caffeine and cocaine, because who would possibly fund that study, and to what end, and what review board would approve it?
Here is one similar study (I don't think is the right one though):
> Intravenous nicotine and caffeine: subjective and physiological effects in cocaine abusers
> The subjective and physiological effects of intravenously administered caffeine and nicotine were compared in nine subjects with histories of using caffeine, tobacco, and cocaine.
Since this study exists, why is it so far off the other study exists? I don't know why it got funded, or to what end, but I'm sure happy it did. We need to study drugs more, not less.
While it’s true that if the LD50 is 200mg/kg, you’d expect roughly 50% of humans weighing about 100kg to die from it, I kind of suspect it doesn’t quite work that way. Dose/response relationships are frequently logarithmic, which means that after a certain point, you have to increase the dose by a lot to get just a little more effect.
Also, LD50 values are always extrapolated from single dose tests on lab animals, typically rats or mice. Not only is that not how a human would end up ingesting 10+ grams of caffeine, the LD50 varies considerably from one animal to the next.
For instance:
> [S]ome LD50s for dichlorvos, an insecticide commonly used in household pesticide strips, are listed below:[0]
> Oral LD50 (rat): 56 mg/kg
> Oral LD50 (rabbit) 10 mg/kg
> Oral LD50 (pigeon:): 23.7 mg/kg
> Oral LD50 (rat): 56 mg/kg
> Oral (mouse): 61 mg/kg
> Oral (dog): 100 mg/kg
> Oral (pig): 157 mg/kg
As you can see, these numbers don’t seem to scale up in any intuitive way when you start crossing animal species.
That is complete bullshit.