Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login
Arrington now officially out (techcrunch.com)
119 points by hunterowens on Sept 12, 2011 | hide | past | favorite | 58 comments



Am I one of the few who thinks that Arrington & TechCrunch are a problem in the startup world today?

The reason TC gets the scoops is in part because they strong-arm startups by not writing about them if they don't provide an exclusive. Now, granted they get a lot of scoops about major companies which is quite impressive - but honestly, that's not very insightful, just juicy bits of info that we like to read about.

Most startups that TC 'scoops' tend to be "social mobile local" startups that generate buzz - there are a lot of successful startups in decidedly non-sexy areas that are quite profitable, which never get covered because they don't get the same page views that say, Color's $40 million investment does.

I think Arrington & TC actively hurt the startup community by providing a narrow world-view. Sites like GigaOM & Ars Technica provide thoughtful, indepth analysis of the technology scene , while TechCrunch continues to post opinionated, linkbait pieces.

Am I the only one who feels that TechCrunch is the startup world's Jersey Shore? Just because you get a lot of views doesn't mean that your content is valuable or useful in any way.


I'll semi repeat a previous answer about this topic:

I look at Techcrunch like this. TechCrunch is TMZ for our industry.

On one end there is the phenomenal up to the minute, you can't find this anywhere else, everyone will be talking about it nonstop for a week, they scooped everybody stuff. (i.e. TMZ scooped the entire news industry on Michael Jackson's death and TechCrunch routinely scoops other tech blogs on stuff like Google trying to buy path and Color's last funding round)

And then there is the tech/startup industry drama and celebrity gossip.

If you look at as such you won't be so surprised and offended when you read it.


Great perspective. There are some celebrities who seem to live and die by the hype associated with those sorts of stories. And there are other celebrities who have a distinguished body of work and only incidentally appear in those rags. Which kind of startup would you rather be: the Kardashian or the Helen Miram?


>Am I the only one who feels that TechCrunch is the startup world's Jersey Shore?

I don't think it's ever truly been taken seriously by hackers, except in a pragmatic sense.


Not sure if I entirely agree. Before one of it's earlier Wordpress redesigns (around 2007), TechCrunch did a solid job on providing information on internet/tech startups before most others were looking at the space. Plenty of people doing web development in 2005-2007 were reading TechCrunch to find interesting companies and web development news.


"Am I the only one who feels that TechCrunch is the startup world's Jersey Shore?" Yes there are some articles that don't involve actual reporting. The problem is that those articles get the most page views and people respond to them the most. Look at this post from today about a true entrepreneur that is doing real innovation in the e-commerce/fashion space. http://techcrunch.com/2011/09/12/after-ebay-acquisition-gsi-... The article has a meek 3 comments and low social stats.

This was even published before the TC drama that came out today.

Keep in mind everyone always talks about how TC doesn't cover start ups and only highlight the big players. If you actually look through the stats of what they post about, it isn't the case. It is just their cheezy/TMZ-ish articles get the most attention and stay in memory for longer.


No, you're not.

I don't know if it's good or bad or if that generality can be made.

It sure can be fun to read at times.


I can remember the post that finally pushed me to unsubscribe from TechCrunch: http://techcrunch.com/2011/06/20/why-we-often-blindside-comp.... It's by Michael Arrington, and it's one step short of a hatchet job on Caterina Fake. It's not the only dirty laundry airing I've seen on TechCrunch, it's just the most fetid.

I liked TechCrunch when it primarily carried the underdog and captured the optimism and energy of the valley. Whenever Michael Arrington used it as a soapbox to air dirty laundry, it made me uncomfortable.

To the future leaders of TechCrunch: Less ValleyWag, more GigaOM.


So, why did she leave Hunch? Anyone care to fill in? Is this another example of the timeless adage "never start a company with your sig other"?


Why she left Hunch is really none of your business or mine.

Mike Arrington may or may not have received some information from someone who may or may not have been telling the truth, which he then chose to describe in a blog post as 'sordid'. That still doesn't make idle gossip and speculation appropriate.


Pardon my naivete (or nosiness, perhaps) but, why isn't it our business? When a well-known co-founder leaves a company they started, isn't it news? Why isn't it in this particular case? When Jobs leaves people dissect the event to its constituent quarks, admittedly Fake is not that big, but still, she is well-known. So isn't it natural for people to be curious?

Other than idle curiosity, isn't news of this kind important for investors? If you were to invest $10M in her next startup, wouldn't you want to know why she left the previous one, heck, isn't the first questions one gets asked in an interview "Why are you leaving your previous company"? Do you counter those by saying it's nobody's business?


The group of people that have a relevant reason for discussing her departure from Hunch (which could potentially include future investors, future co-founders, future business partners, and future employees) can ask her and/or Hunch about it directly. That subset of people is considerably smaller than TechCrunch's (or Hacker News') readership.

It is natural for people to be curious, which is why gossip exists, and why there's a market for publishing it. However, our tendency to gossip is something we should resist and overcome.

There's a large distinction between Fake and Jobs (or Schmidt, or Bartz). The former was an executive of a small private company. The latter was the CEO of one of the largest public companies on earth, owned in part by many thousands of investors, all of whom have a financial interest in his health. Executives do have to explain things to their investors, and in a public company, the investors and the public are the same.

TechCrunch and similar publications have long tried to treat Silicon Valley and high-tech entrepreneurship in general as 'Hollywood for geeks', and the founders of startups as the equivalent to entertainment figures. But entrepreneurs aren't politicians or movie stars, no matter how much the tech press (and certain entrepreneurs!) might like it to be so, and subjecting their private lives to the same amount of scrutiny is repugnant.


This is an interesting discussion and I agree with some of your comments. As guidelines for interest you seem to prescribe (i) company size and (ii) public-private (this fails for intensely polarizing people like Zuckerberg, though, guy had a movie made on him). Fair enough.

You blame TechCrunch (and its ilk) for pumping the "Hollywood for geeks" culture, which is of course true. But this, as any Hollywood star knows, is a two way street. Many of the geeks thrive on their stardom, with thousands of people following their Twitter feeds and blogs. This in turn leads to investment in their companies (and appearances and book deals, etc.) I'm not saying that all geeks (or Fake) employ such Kardeshian-like tactics to get attention, but some do. TechCrunch is a channel for these people to get and focus attention (although Arrington's style does sometime get crude). It's the same dynamic as movie/TV stars and late night shows, if you're in that business you have to do the rounds.

Now, in the case of Fake, I don't know why leaving the company is her "private life" but most people here seem to think so. Arrington in his blunt way hints that there is "juicy" bits to this. If that is the case, I have no interest. My question was not to pry into Fake's dating life per se. I am much more interested in understanding the thought patterns (or the downvoting patterns) on HN than this issue.


How much did you invest in Hunch?


Hmm, so you filter reading and discussing posts on TC, HN and others by the companies you invest? Either you are very rich or you don't get to read and discuss much.


Not what I implied at all. You said that investors would have a right to know why Fake left Hunch. You also expressed entitlement to know. So, I assumed you were consistent in your positions.

Or, are you saying you'd like to know just because you want to? Do you feel you have a right to know? Is the world being unfair to you?


I don't think that's a "timeless adage". Given the long history of the "mom and pop store" and the "family business" most people within the past 50 years would consider that adage absurd.


That was a tongue in cheek comment, maybe not so explicit; however, I still think there's quite a bit of truth in it. The mom and pop store example isn't quite relevant because (i) generally "mom" marries into the business, i.e. it was established before she came in, she just helps and (ii) well, there's a reason they are called mom and pop, they are married (when expectations about marriage were a little different). That's why you see so few such stores established by twenty somethings today.


You see few businesses in general established by twentysomethings. Silicon Valley is and always has been the exception, not the norm.

Although yes, generally one gets married before starting business ventures with one's partner. But that's still a very, very common setup.


I could be wrong but I don't think Chris Dixon and Caterina Fake were together. They co-founded Hunch together but that seems to be it. And stop worrying/thinking about why she left. She did what she wanted. There's no need for tech soap operas.


Maybe I was mistaken about their relationship, but that wasn't my point (at least not my main one): With people as prominent as Fake leaving a company (that she cofounded) you just can't say "mind your own business, she's free to do anything", people want to know. When Bratz or Jobs or Schmidt changed their roles or left, could you make the same comment?


Can someone summarize the controversy for me?

As I understand it, Arrington wanted to head a new VC while at the same continuing to serve as head of TechCrunch, the major journalistic outlet in the startup field. AOL raised questions about his journalistic integrity, and made him choose between being a VC and being a journalist, and he gave them an ultimatum, they called his bluff, and he chose VC.

Did I miss a detail or nuance that makes this anything other than AOL holding up traditional journalistic virtues?


Generally, ethics guidelines at reputable publication (and with AOL, the "reputable" part probably deserves airquotes) will prohibit editors and reporters from having personal investments in the companies they write about, to prevent conflicts of interest or at least the appearance of such conflicts. For reporters that cover a sector, this generally extends to all companies within that industry (I used to be a technology reporter.)

Arrington wanted to both:

1. run an influential tech publication covering early stage companies

2. run a fund that invests in early stage companies and have compensation tied to the performance of that fund (if not his own money invested as well.)

Those two are generally considered mutually exclusive as far as a media organization is concerned. If someone at AOL didn't see that conflict when adding him to their fund effort, they're dumb. If Mike didn't see that issue, he's dumb too or just thinks everyone else is dumb.

Clearly AOL at least has some minimum threshold of integrity they're trying to maintain. I don't think there's much blame you can assign to Huffington on this unless you can find another major editor who would allow that kind of a conflict.


Arrington voluntarily posted on TC announcing he was stepping down as Editor of TC but remaining on as a writer while he went to start his new fund. His new fund is primarily funded by AOL and he has the full support of the AOL CEO.

Arianna who's responsible for AOL's other news outlets then had her staff tell the media that Arrington was fired and would have no role at Techcrunch. This seems to have been done without consulting the AOL executive committee who backed Arrington.

Techcrunch when they were acquired by AOL were promised full editorial independence, hence they were AOL's only news blog outlet not to be controlled by Arianna. Arianna then attempted to make a power grab by publicly announcing that Techcrunch fell under her control and she was going to appoint the new editor.

Arrington complained that this grossly violated the editorial independence promised by AOL, and that Techcrunch should be able to appoint it's own editor. Many of TC's writers are unhappy with this violation and feel without independence they won't be able to retain the tone and spirit of TC (which is often very abrasive).

At least one of their writers (Paul Carr) has publicly stated that he would resign unless Arrington got to appoint the next editor . Even in this article note how the Techcrunch writer puts "Deciding" in quotation marks to indicate that Arrington was pushed.

The final line of the press release "TechCrunch will be expanding its editorial leadership in the coming months." seems to imply that Arianna has won the power battle within AOL. The line saying Erick Schonfeld has been named editor is highly misleading, Erick's been co-editor of TC since 2007, it adds nothing new to the situation.


Small note, this doesn't seem to be simply an unsolicited power grab on Arianna Huffington's part. From the Press Release announcing the AOL Acquisition of Huffpo:

Arianna Huffington To Lead Newly Formed The Huffington Post Media Group Which Will Integrate All Huffington Post and AOL Content, Including News, Tech, Women, Local, Multicultural, Entertainment, Video, Community, and More

It seems like her role as Editor In Chief of all AOL content was part of the deal she made, since this occurred after the Techcruch deal was done Arrington likely had little recourse at that point. (Huffpo was acquired after TC, any promises made to TC about editorial independence was prior to the new editorial leadership). "Promises" made when big companies buy little ones are always pretty worthless once the rubber really hits the road.


TC has remained mostly independent after that point as well:

http://techcrunch.com/2011/02/24/aol-to-restructure-media-gr...

Of-course none of that will matter if the TC writers decide to leave an create a rival blog. It comes down to if AOL can now pay them enough to stay.


TC has remained mostly independent after that point as well:

I think that current events have pretty much dispelled that notion.


While some say that TechCrunch is the TMZ of our industry, some days it seems like Hacker News is the TMZ of TechCrunch. I don't care what anyone says, we're all eating up the TC drama over here.


Agreed. I don't really think it's good or bad thing but just a good observation. It's a lot like how everyone cranes their neck at a car accident. You don't want to gawk but you do anyway.


If the writers are really that pissed, what's to stop them from just jumping ship and starting a new tech blog? They'll be able to take their industry contacts and Twitter accounts with them, meaning they could have a near seamless transition.


Undoubtedly there's a non-compete in place, at least for Arrington. The writers could maybe jump ship if they are willing to take the leap, but they'd have to be very careful to steer clear of Arrington if they do so.

Note non-competes as the result of acquisitions are pretty much iron clad even in CA.


It's unclear if they do have non-competes. Non-competes make sense for developers at a startup stopping them working for a rival to that startup, as there's plenty of other firms that developers can work for.

But for tech journalists ? - if you stop them working for a tech news site they can't get another job. It's not as if they can become sports journalists or war correspondents, a large part of their value is in their specialism and contacts in that specialism. Hence a non-compete would probably be considered an unfair restraint of trade.


"Note non-competes as the result of acquisitions are pretty much iron clad even in CA."

I think that only applies if the employee in question had ownership/investment in the acquired company. If they did not, then the non-compete is not valid (at least in CA, I have no idea about WA).


All the rumors say that Arrington and Ariana Huffington (head of AOL's editorial) were are loggerheads as soon as Huffington joined the company.

Two people that liked each other and wanted to work together professionally could probably have worked it out, but there was no way either of these two would have managed it.


By the terms of the sale of Techcrunch to AOL, Arrington would have had to stay there 3 year. Starting a venture fund is his way of trolling his way out of that obligation.


Pretty simple really, AOL acquired two aggressive and ambitious bloggers (Mike Arrington and Arianna Huffington) and put them in a situation where one where they would be in constant conflict but constrained by contractual earn-out restrictions. Sort of like tying a bear to a stake and putting a dog in the ring. Much messiness ensued, painful to watch, and now Mike has left the arena (presumably with most of his money and certainly with his VC venture intact).

Perhaps he'll become like the other side of pg and write cogent essays about the marketing and PR side of startups while funding a small stable of them.


One thing all the coverage of this has missed is that Arrington's leaving doesn't really fix this conflict of interest.

Two critical points:

1) Crunchfund is funded by AOL. 2) Techcrunch is owned by AOL.

Yes Arrington being in-charge of both was a conflict of interest, but the fact is that even after Arrington's resignation/firing, AOL is still in charge of both.


Erick Schonfeld has been named the editor of TechCrunch. TechCrunch will be expanding its editorial leadership in the coming months.

This makes me somewhat skeptical about how much autonomy Erick will be given in the long run. Unless they mean the expanded editorial leadership would ultimately answer to him.


Arrington leaving will create a void in technology news-covering. Say what you want, but he's had terrific scoops, amazing interviews, and elevated the status of startups in the press.

But what do you expect from Arianna and AOL?

He'll have a pretty personal personal blog - something like AVC - and I look forward to him bringing his expertise and style to investing. Good times.


I don't think it's fair to blame the other parties for this. The void was in the making as soon as Arrington decided he should head a VC fund.


That's funny, I thought the void was in the making as soon as Arrington & co. decided to sell TechCrunch.

It's not like we all didn't see this happening 11 months ago.


"But what do you expect from Arianna and AOL?"

Huh? Sorry but anyone with any integrity would have and should have kicked Arrington out. If I were an AOL exec I would have kicked him out. There is no way they can allow Techcrunch to become the promotional arm for his new investment fund.

So don't blame Ariana or AOL for this.


What do I expect from Arianna and AOL. Well if we look take engadget as an example... I expect to change my book mark from that crapfest soon.


Agreed. Like him or hate him, Arrington is the reason we all read Techcrunch. If he started his own site, we'd all read that instead in an instant.

Journalism needs guys like this who cause waves, it's what seperates mediocre journalism from real talent. And Arrington certainly had a way of making enemies.

I'm hoping he starts his own site soon.


"Journalism needs guys like this who cause waves, it's what seperates mediocre journalism from real talent."

No, it's not. Good investigation and objective reporting is what the industry needs. Link-baiting and sensationalism are generally bad for constructive communication.


Here is Arrington's announcement at Disrupt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFARI6oBv8c


This is good news. Erick is a great reporter without all the conflicts of Arrington.


Arrington launches a ThisIsMyNext-style competing blog in 3, 2, ...


Disagree. Arrington will have a powerful personal blog. But now he gets to have his cake and eat it to.

He leaks intel to his former staffers at TC to cover. He writes occasionally as an unpaid blogger. And he runs Crunchfund without any conflicts.


Kind of predictable. There is no way he could be a "serious startup journalist" while working as a VC. While at first AOL seemed to be the "big evil corp.", it now seems to me that this is a simple journalistic principle that should be held and valued highly. As such, I applaud AOL to sticking to this principle. It's simply the right decision. And if Arrington did a good job and laid all the groundwork (and AOL doesn't mess up), techcrunch will keep on going as it has..


But Michael already has several investments in various companies, so what is the principal difference now? He kind of was a VC already, wasn't he?

I am also not sure if TC will be the same without Michael. I personally don't think so, but we'll see.


It was wrong before too. It got even more wrong with the new fund, though.


Oh my Gaahd! I like totally can't wait to buy Arrington's next startup... the transition will be so seamless... he'll help preserve and expand value during the transition and afterwards...

well, on second thought, maybe not...


pageview++;


Error: Buffer overflow


Pageview is a pointer?


It's probably an integer :D


Unless pageview is a pointer or an array index, or a value used to calculate a pointer or array index, there's no way incrementing it can lead to a buffer overflow. Maybe an integer overflow.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: