Tune me out if this doesn't resonate with you, but what you're describing, does it feel like it could have a spiritual component? Is it a sense of total, overwhelming hopelessness, but a rational one, based on existence as you can understand it?
I spent a long time in a state like that, with suicidality and all. In retrospect it was a total "poverty of spirit", and I had to accept a drastically different understanding of myself and existence altogether to move past it. But it was necessary for me to experience it to do that, and I can truly say I am changed for the better. All this is a roundabout way to say, that accepting the idea of total depravity, and realizing that the all-encompassing hopelessness that springs from that state of being is completely valid, was surprisingly helpful to me, at least. I still had to find hope somewhere else (or in someone else to be specific), but doing so did help in a way medicine didn't (for me).
Actually, yes, it does feel like it could have a spiritual component. As a child I was a reluctant Christian. I’ve described myself as an atheist starting when I was 11 or so. Since experimenting with psychedelics, I now describe myself as an agnostic. I have a sense that there is some greater entity out there, but I have zero confidence that it resembles any human god.
I attended a Christian church service a couple of weeks ago, for the first time in over a decade. It was an odd feeling. On one hand, I felt a bit like I was in a cult meeting and I was totally disillusioned. On the other hand, after talking with people there, many of them seemed to describe a “void” in their life which was filled by religion. I can feel a void like that in myself. Maybe this is the “poverty of spirit” you describe? Still, while I agree with many Christian teachings, I don’t think anybody could convert me into a believer.
I feel the all-encompassing hopelessness; the nihilism. Nothing matters. There might be consequences of
my death, but ultimately those consequences don’t matter.
If I thought anything mattered, maybe I would think I matter.
I am very curious to hear more about your experience. I have to admit I’m having trouble understanding your solution.
Coming from a similar background as you (reluctant Catholic kid, now agnostic, seeking greater social connection), after attending a couple Quaker services over the years I've been strongly considering going regularly (alas, Covid).
The service is very unlike other Christian rites. There is no priest, and anyone can speak. I remember long stretches of silence in contemplation, punctuated with a thoughtful couple sentences here and there from someone more spiritual than me.
Importantly, it's also my understanding many Quaker meetings openly accept atheists and agnostics, among a diversity of beliefs. See https://nontheistfriends.org/
I was a very outspoken atheist myself for many years, an officer in my college's chapter of the secular student alliance back in the early 2010's. I was raised going to a mainline church sometimes, but it didn't do anything for me. I never had a grudge against Christianity or anything, but I grouped Jesus and God in with Santa at some point as a teenager and never really thought further about it.
So I didn't think I could be converted either. I thought "Good without God" was how I could live, and things would eventually work out if I could just tune my environment or my brain chemistry accordingly. But I eventually found myself backed into a corner when I realized I had no way to reconcile meaning, joy, or goodness with myself or life as I could understand it. I wasn't good at all, if I was honest with myself. I felt exactly as you described, without value in a world that had no value.
There's a lot to be said to tell the whole story, but to be anticlimactic, my solution was indeed Jesus. Considering his words, his claims, his promises, and daring to believe they applied to me, that's how I found hope, and a reason to live life as though I do have some value. How I got to that point from atheist, that required a long process of addressing a number of assumptions and biases before choosing to believe. The whole "church" part came after, and was more of the icing on the cake.
BTW, if you're curious at all, here's what I was reading tonight that actually got me thinking on the topic of "poverty of spirit" and what it means to Christianity in particular (starts at section I.1 - https://www.ccel.org/ccel/wesley/sermons.v.xxi.html )
I gotta go to bed, but if you wanna chat more or hear the whole story sometime let me know. I can email that address you posted in the other comment. Wishing you the best.
What helped me with regard to that was reading the first three pages of "The myth of Sisyphus" by Albert Camus. I never even read the book further than that.
Did you turn to organized religion? I find that I don't really believe in anything enough (not just religion) to be a spiritual person. How did you develop a spiritual component?
Yeah, I did put my hope in Jesus and turn to Christianity. I didn't consider myself spiritual either beforehand. I never did psychedelics or believed in anything supernatural, or believed in some higher power or meaning before I made the decision to believe in Jesus' claims. It was a decision based on evaluating the state of my own self, and evaluating Jesus and his words.
Though to give some background, even when I was an avowed atheist, moral relativism was something I could never abide. I always felt strongly that as intelligent beings, there was truth and objectively better ways of existing to be found. The book "The beginning of infinty" helped me justify that rationally, and also made me realize how incredibly powerful, rare, and valuable intelligence is as a force in the universe. From there, CS Lewis' "Abolition of Man" got me onto the idea of natural Law, and the "Gospel of Thomas" got me thinking on the timeless, and somewhat subversive nature of the truths that Jesus taught. I looked many places, but found Jesus' teachings to be uniquely valuable to understanding the state of myself own soul. From there, it was a matter of choosing to believe him on the harder stuff (CS Lewis' Trilemma came into play there). The feeling of belief did not precede the decision to believe, which surprised me, but is apparently not uncommon.
I'm glad I did though, and my spirituality (which I only developed afterward) has become really essential to my life and hugely positive for my wellbeing. The organized religion aspect is more of a support system and framework to practice it in, but quite helpful nonetheless.
For sure! I know I dropped a couple of book recs in the comment above, but if you ever want more, or just to talk/ask questions feel free to reach out. My email is my HN username at gmail.
I spent a long time in a state like that, with suicidality and all. In retrospect it was a total "poverty of spirit", and I had to accept a drastically different understanding of myself and existence altogether to move past it. But it was necessary for me to experience it to do that, and I can truly say I am changed for the better. All this is a roundabout way to say, that accepting the idea of total depravity, and realizing that the all-encompassing hopelessness that springs from that state of being is completely valid, was surprisingly helpful to me, at least. I still had to find hope somewhere else (or in someone else to be specific), but doing so did help in a way medicine didn't (for me).