It's not in the top 5 by number of patients treated.
Anecdotally I met people who went to Germany, Israel, India and Thailand for treatment, I never heard of anyone even discussing going to the US. The visas alone are a nightmare.
I see someone shifting the goalposts here, first we were saying that US healthcare is not worse in any metric, then we started measuring it's success by medical tourism, now are down to some special rare diseases.
Let's come back to where we were before, measures per unit of money spent, US healthcare delivers worse outcomes that any other developed nation. Measured in average health of its citizen, the outcomes aren't great. Life expectancy, and other metrics aren't particularly amazing.
> to the point that the U.S. is a huge medical tourism destination.
Of course, if you have the money to fly to the US, stay in the US and pay out-of-pocket for a medical procedure in the US, then yes, the US is a good destination. Which translates into: if you're rich, medicine in the US is great.
However, not all of us are rich. And definitely not all Americans are rich.
>Americans cite cost savings as the most common reason to go abroad for health treatment, as medical procedures in foreign hospitals can cost thousands of dollars less than in the United States. This is especially true for those without health insurance—for an uninsured person, a knee replacement can cost
$30,000 in the United States, compared to $12,000 in India. Many health travelers also go abroad for elective procedures such as cosmetic surgery that regular policies may not cover.
In other words, they largely go outside the US to save money on either cosmetic or routine procedures that, for one reason or other, US insurance won't cover.[1] Not same thing as the earlier discussion of rare or difficult conditions.
[1] Or they've chosen to not get health insurance. Post-Obamacare, this means that they are willingly paying the tax penalty for not having insurance. 91% of Americans have health insurance.
> Not same thing as the earlier discussion of rare or difficult conditions.
There was no earlier discussion of "rare or difficult conditions".
> 91% of Americans have health insurance.
That health insurance is often tied to the employer and wildly varies in what it offers. And you have to fight insurance tooth and nail to get what you need. Even on a good insurance.
In 2020, 8.6 percent of people, or 28.0 million, did not have health insurance at any point during the year.
The percentage of people with health insurance coverage for all or part of 2020 was 91.4.
More children under the age of 19 in poverty were uninsured in 2020 than in 2018. Uninsured rates for children under the age of 19 in poverty rose 1.6 percentage points to 9.3 percent.
--- end quote ---
I can't imagine a European saying "yeah, we have 28 million uninsured, many of them kids, it's their own fault".
> You did not believe the 91% figure I provided, so frantically looked for evidence to support your presupposition that only the top 1%
Stop inventing arguments for other people, and then bravely fighting these arguments.
> found that the 91% figure is indeed accurate, so could only come up with the above as riposte.
Yes. It's a valid riposte: I cannot imagine a European proudly "debunking" something by saying "yeah, we have 28 million people uninsured, it's their own fault"
> The US mixed system of public and private healthcare coverage is quite similar to the system used in Germany, Switzerland, and other countries
It's not.
> Before Obamacare, about 85% of Americans had health insurance.
Before, during, and after Obamacare 100% Europeans (well, not entirely true [1]) have insurance
> or a German who changes jobs and neglects to transfer coverage to a provider that serves his new industry.
Your medical insurance is not tied to your job in Germany (or anywhere in Europe).
> Yes, 85%. Again, contrary to what Reddit told you.
You keep inventing arguments for your opponent and bravely debunking them. The only numbers I provided are taken directly from US Census.
[1] some (8 in 2016, 4 in 2020) countries in the EU have lower insurance rates. However:
- these countries keep increasing coverage or implementing reforms to bring universal healthcare (Cyprus an Ireland)
- even "uninsured" still have free access to emergency care and care during pregnancy (e.g. Romania)
>Yes. It's a valid riposte: I cannot imagine a European proudly "debunking" something by saying "yeah, we have 28 million people uninsured, it's their own fault"
The US is a country of 330 million. I can say that out of 80 million Germans at least 2-3 million (3%) are without health insurance. Is that something to be "proud" of? Or, as I said, are such gaps inevitable in any health-insurance system that a) requires some sort of membership (i.e., almost all developed countries outside the UK NHS), plus b) the US's unique situation of another 3-4% without health insurance inherent from having 10 million illegal aliens within its borders?
>> The US mixed system of public and private healthcare coverage is quite similar to the system used in Germany, Switzerland, and other countries
>It's not.
In what way are the systems greatly different? In both the US and Germany/Switzerland/etc., people obtain insurance from either a variety of private sources (in the US, nonprofit or for-profit) or public (in the US, Medicare, Medicaid, military Tricare, Indian Health Service). Post-Obamacare, the US also mandates that those without insurance obtain it from some source, whether public or private.
Now, you may quibble and say that the hundreds of German sickness funds are not really "private" because they are nonprofit, but they are independent from the government like their US counterparts, both nonprofit (example: Kaiser) and profit (example: Aetna). Both countries' systems differ from, say, the UK NHS (which handles both payment and delivery), the Canadian single-payer system (which handles payment, with no alternative allowed by law), or the Australian system (single-payer, but with a heavy emphasis on encouraging people to move to private plans).
>Your medical insurance is not tied to your job in Germany (or anywhere in Europe).
I didn't say that insurance in Germany is tied to one's job. However, German coverage offerings, providers, and types of providers (public or private) differ depending on whether one is an ordinary private-sector employee, a government employee, or student. Also, German employers pay for part of employees' premiums, as in the US.
>- even "uninsured" still have free access to emergency care and care during pregnancy (e.g. Romania)
This is true as well in the US; the EMTALA law prohibits turning away anyone from hospitals regardless of ability to pay.
- German public insurance is priced according to income, not health condition. Preconditions aren't a thing°
- You know that the treatment is covered before it begins. There are no surprise costs. There are rarely any costs at all, except for a 5-10€ deductible that cannot go above a certain monthly amount.
- It covers your dependents for free.
- It covers students for very cheap.
- It covers you in all of the EU, by law. This includes internships abroad.
Basically, you can trust your insurance to fully cover all necessary care, with no exceptions.
Re-read what you replied to: they were talking about "the average American", not the richest ones.
The total societal outcome -- spending vs outcome -- and therefore the average outcome too, for the USA as compared to most other developed countries... Pretty much sucks.
The US population not taking care of themselves is a public health problem not a medical care quality issue.