Thankfully we have options. I'm planning on moving my main desktop to Arch over my Christmas break from work. It's been a while since I ran Linux as my main desktop, my only complaints have been around gaming performance. I have a friend who plays the same games as I do and he's got everything working on his Arch install. That's really the only thing that holds me on Windows and if it's as smooth of a transition as I believe it currently is then I just have no reason to not give it another fair shake.
The only games that I really ever struggle with are ones that have anticheat. And EasyAntiCheat is going linux friendly so something like 95 of the top 100 games on steam will either work natively or via proton.
And with Valve pushing the SteamDeck is see that number going to 100 soon.
Steam on linux will automatically pull in protondb profiles for your games, so you probably don't even need to explicitly "check out" protondb at this point. Most games will "just work", with the exception of big AAA games with picky anti-cheat engines.
Haven't you heard? It's the year of the Linux desktop :)
In all seriousness, until about a year ago when I got a discount on a Macbook and changed to that, I had been running Linux for about a decade across different laptops, and feel that since ~2017 the desktop experience has improved substantially. I bought a new laptop in 2017, installed Ubuntu on it...and that was it. I spent exactly zero minutes installing drivers or mucking with configurations, multiple monitors with HDMI audio worked out of the box, and "going to sleep upon the lid closing" just worked. Granted, I'm a bit of a Linux veteran at this so maybe there were a lot of things I was tweaking that I just don't remember since I do them so often, but I do not think that was the case, since I got my wife (who is not a software engineer) using Ubuntu as well for awhile.
I think part of what made it better was using AMD hardware for everything. The drivers are just included with the kernel, and they work great out of the box, at least for me.
I realize that telling everyone to shop for a computer based on the drivers that will be available isn't exactly a great sales pitch for Linux for the average consumer, but I suspect if you frequent HN you probably have a reasonable ability to differentiate video cards and whatnot.
> and "going to sleep upon the lid closing" just worked.
And "not going to sleep upon the lid closing" just works, too! I tried this when I hooked my laptop up to the TV. Closing the lid did nothing. It only went to sleep when you closed it and unplugged the HDMI. I really really liked that, despite it being a tiny detail.
I can't really blame people for thinking that the Linux desktop experience sucks, to be fair. As someone who used it in 2012 and went through the pain of getting an Optimus graphics card working correctly, and dealt with the weird rendering issues of Gnome 3, and had to write a bootup script to disable "tap to click" on my mousepad, it's a reasonable complaint to say that the Linux desktop is unfriendly.
I think a lot of people would genuinely like the 2021 Linux desktop experience if they tried it, but I fear that it will be quite difficult to shake the (well earned) stigma.
> I can't really blame people for thinking that the Linux desktop experience sucks, to be fair.
Nor me. A lot of it has been small things in my experience though, like this trackpad being terrible, or GNOME crashing once in a blue moon. I've definitely not experienced the level of pain you had with Optimus, or the rendering issues, which seems like a good thing. Although... on the subject of rendering issues, Firefox doesn't like it when the system is woken from sleep and has a really weird glitching effect until you maximise and restore the window.
On this laptop Linux hasn't been that bad, honestly the worst thing for me is this genuinely bad trackpad driver that has massive jutter and is hilariously broken. I might learn C so I can look into making my own.
I do agree on your last point(s). It's got substantially better, but as always there are little things that majorly hold it back (trackpad!) when the rest of the system isn't actually that bad. I'd much prefer it to Windows, despite its flaws.
Actually, outside of having trouble disabling tap to click, I haven't had a ton of issues with the trackpad.
I also haven't had the Firefox rendering problems, but I think that might be because for the last Linux laptop I had, I specifically sought out a graphics card that was likely to not have any issues.
> I might learn C so I can look into making my own.
I've thought about that too. If I weren't on Apple now I probably would have already started on that, but the closest thing I've done to any kind of "driver" has been to make custom FUSE mount.
> Actually, outside of having trouble disabling tap to click, I haven't had a ton of issues with the trackpad.
Ahh, interesting! Not sure why, but it seems that some people have a horrible experience with the trackpad on Linux, while others have a great time (from a quick observation, anyway).
As a dumb guess, maybe it's due to different drivers being used? It's exactly the same on Wayland and Linux, so I'm guessing it's happening a lot lower in the stack (I read something about libinput? Not sure where that lies at the moment.)
Grr, so much to think about! Perhaps one day I'll have a much better trackpad...
> I also haven't had the Firefox rendering problems, but I think that might be because for the last Linux laptop I had, I specifically sought out a graphics card that was likely to not have any issues.
Ahh, what graphics card is that? I'm guessing it's not NVIDIA.
I’m using an AMD system as an OBS Studio streaming system, and Linux was not great.
I first set it up with a Ryzen 5 3600 and Radeon HD 6750, running Ubuntu 20.04 LTS, because I thought I didn’t really need that much processing power. After un-blacklisting the driver for such an old GPU, I discovered I was using upwards of 80% CPU and dropping frames while streaming at 1440p, so I decided to upgrade.
Then, I tried a Ryzen 7 5700g with integrated Vega 8. First, I needed to upgrade to Ubuntu 21.10 for such a new GPU, and then OBS Studio was randomly crashing while switching between scenes. Also, hardware video encoding wasn’t working well, so it was still taking upwards of 80% CPU while streaming at 1440p. And the video outputs were finicky, sending windows to the wrong screen on power up. Random crashing is unusable, so I switched to Windows.
With Windows 11 on the Ryzen 7 5700g, the hardware video encoding works well, so the same scenes are taking less than 50% CPU while streaming at 4K (2160p) and not dropping any frames. Now I can do other things on the stream.
I’m sorry you went through all that. I’m not going to ask you to switch back to Linux, but it might be worth filing a bug report with Ubuntu about this, since I doubt you are the only person who wants to use a Linux computer to stream video.
I used OBS when I was on Linux and it worked exactly as I wanted it to, but I’ll concede that I 1) wasn’t gaming and b) was using software encoding.
I'll typically do a minimal starting distro and lots of tuning, which works decently I think in the desktop world. But whenever I tried to apply this to a Laptop it would fail miserably, I think because my various static configurations don't work great for typical laptop use cases.
Boring old Ubuntu with some DE customization works totally fine on a laptop, though. I don't know why I tried to do this hard-mode for years.
Yeah, I used to run a vanilla Arch install on my laptop, and I did manage to get it working almost as well as Windows or macOS after about a week of tinkering, but after a certain point I realized that I want to work on cooler problems than mucking with systemd or dkms, so I just installed Ubuntu and never looked back until I bought a Macbook last year.
I think the newest versions of Ubuntu are great. They've started to give me everything I like about macOS [1] while being FOSS(ish) and portable to any computer I want.
[1] Not comparing Ubuntu to macOS directly, but more of a macOS "feel" in the sense of how I use it.
One problem here is that you always get posts like this. I've seen discussions about Linux on desktop going back twenty years, now, and there are always people saying it was problematic a few years ago and is so much better now. But then always plenty of people still having trouble and plenty of listed in-thread issues with sleep, trackpads, multi-monitor, configuration, compatibility, etc. It seems like you have to get lucky or do a lot of research. Or both.
Windows is always getting worse, too, but still basically works on all hardware. I've been thinking of switching away, given how bad Windows 11 looks to be and how irritating Windows 10 has been. But then, Windows XP, Vista and others were also known to be terrible but still mostly worked.
On balance, I'd say that Windows is likely to continue a user-hostile decline but still mostly work and Linux on Desktop is likely to always have a lot of effort involved if you want everything to work well. But there's probably no point at which Linux will work well on all hardware or Windows will be less usable by default.
> It seems like you have to get lucky or do a lot of research. Or both.
Yep, no question here. While Linux compatibility has gotten a lot better in recent years, you're definitely rolling the dice a bit in driver-land if you don't research beforehand.
That said, since pretty much every big distro is free, it's not necessarily a bad idea to just download it and try it out, at least with a Live USB Ubuntu image or something. If it works out of the box, then maybe you should install it, and if it doesn't, just unplug the flash drive and restart the computer and stick with Windows. It's entirely possible (and even likely these days) that it will Just Work (tm), and that might influence your decision in switching.
> But there's probably no point at which Linux will work well on all hardware
Yes and no; I think Linux tends to do exceptionally well on older hardware. I've been able to breath life into decade-old computers by just installing Linux Mint with MATE desktop [1], and generally by the time a computer is designated as "old", drivers on Linux are often better than they are on Windows, and due to how stupidly customizable Linux has become, you can get extremely lightweight desktops that require basically nothing to run (e.g. LXDE, MATE).
On newer hardware? Eh, as I said, you're rolling the dice a bit. Generally if you stick with AMD hardware, you are fine, as I said, but that's by no means guaranteed, and to me getting WiFi to work out of the box is the scariest thing, since if you cannot get connected to the internet, it's difficult to fix any of the problems.
[1] I did this for my grandmother who is still running an old AMD64 single-core computer. All she uses it for is browsing the web and checking email (not even YouTube) and she refuses to buy a new computer. Linux Mint has been a godsend.
> Something continuously does not work: multiple screens, waking up from sleep etc.
That's my experience with Windows as well though. On Dell xps on windows my external monitor goes blank sometimes and sleep randomly causes overheating and fast battery drain. On the other hand Linux handles it just fine. Win is not consistently better anymore.
I’ll add that m1 macs have been a shit show for external monitor support (ymmv but google it and you’ll find thousand page long support issues).
It’s either rocket science to get monitors to work flawlessly or it’s the B team working on it. Probably the former given that it’s also a problem on Linux and windoze.
I've been running Arch on my 8th (or maybe 7th?) Generation ThinkPad X1C since I bought it in 2018. I've had no issues with multiple monitors, hibernate, etc. I never got the fingerprint reader working but I don't care to use it regardless, so... Otherwise, though, it's been completely solid the entire time I've had it and it's my daily driver for personal project work.
Yes the ride you get on a laptop completely depends on the laptop. I have a Dell XPS and everything is working great under Linux with that, except sleep that Intel seem to have screwed with to keep the cpu awake. Other HP laptops have been either a similar ride for higher-end one or quite difficult to get working well for a cheap one.
Part of it is the laptops are developed for windows ACPI interpreter, for windows wifi drivers, for windows system level hack drivers etc. It takes time for Linux to figure out individual workarounds. At least for XPS Dell seem to be developing also for it to work on Linux.
I'll concede that if you're talking about the trackpad, Linux is disappointingly bad compared to Windows. It's really really shaky, scrolls up and down with a shockingly massive jitter. You start to wonder if the trackpad itself is malfunctioning. Sadly, the same trackpad works so much better on Windows.
This is mainly about the pointer / trackpad drivers to be fair, but it's still a freestanding issue that has the potential to really bug someone using Linux on a laptop. It gets so bad I have to carry around a mouse.
No shit! My laptop is a nearly 9 year old Dell Latitude. Haven't tried the ASUS trackpads, but IIRC it was quite smooth on an old Windows 8 netbook I had. Really miss that thing.
To clarify the parent's comment, he clicks a button in a menu to suspend, he just also said what the button is doing. It's probably less complicated than you're thinking.
