> MacOS and iOS do not "force" or "all but force" you to create online accounts
How many times in the macOS install/setup wizard do you have to opt out of persistently sending data to Apple or enabling a cloud service? I can think of at least two (analytics and Siri). Do any of them hit you with a pop-up to ask if you're really sure?
What macOS installation media does Apple offer for download to users who do not have Apple accounts?
How many free apps can you download from the Mac App Store before it tells you you need an Apple ID?
> neither pushes you to use iCloud
The macOS default is literally to nag you to ‘start using iCloud’ forever, from the moment you sign in with an Apple ID. This has been so for years now (since Catalina). And it's still that way: https://osxdaily.com/2021/10/30/dont-use-icloud-how-to-remov...
> Okay, but I still don't see any actual forcing. Dark patterns -- indisputably yes. But forcing? Not really.
This is what I meant by ‘all but forcing’, but I can understand how some people might feel that language is too strong. In some ways, that language might be more appropriate for what Microsoft does with, e.g., the Windows installer, where you have to perform installation without network access in order to be provided with the option to log in with a local account rather than a Microsoft account. In others, Microsoft lets users do more without an account, since you can use the MS Store for free apps without an account (or could the last time I used it). Imo, both are awful.
> Oh, and at least you can opt out of data collection.
That's true for at least some forms of data collection, and that's a good thing for sure.
How many times in the macOS install/setup wizard do you have to opt out of persistently sending data to Apple or enabling a cloud service? I can think of at least two (analytics and Siri). Do any of them hit you with a pop-up to ask if you're really sure?
What macOS installation media does Apple offer for download to users who do not have Apple accounts?
How many free apps can you download from the Mac App Store before it tells you you need an Apple ID?
> neither pushes you to use iCloud
The macOS default is literally to nag you to ‘start using iCloud’ forever, from the moment you sign in with an Apple ID. This has been so for years now (since Catalina). And it's still that way: https://osxdaily.com/2021/10/30/dont-use-icloud-how-to-remov...