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Ask HN: What Is Going on with SBCs?
3 points by easygenes on Nov 13, 2021 | hide | past | favorite | 6 comments
In the last week I have taken an interest in and done some research on the state of Single Board Computers (perhaps motivated by the release of the Raspberry Pi Zero 2 W).

It is striking to me that, while there are a plethora of different smartphone designs using ARM cores released in the last couple of years, the same cannot be said at all for SBCs.

The tendency there is for most designs to use SoCs which are based on Cortex A72 or Cortex A73 cores (or similar). These are now 5+ years old. What gives?

If you want an SBC with a recent ARM core there's basically nothing out there. You can get the Snapdragon 888 developer kit for $1400, but that's double what a base spec Snapdragon 888 based phone would cost! Or next year you might be able to get the Jetson AGX Orin with Cortex-A78 cores, but that one also packs a lot of GPU and NPU power and will surely be north of $1000 as well.

Why are there no SBCs using Cortex-A77 or newer and coming in below $400? The chips are out there and surely it is much easier to design an SBC than a smartphone. The closest thing I know of to what I am envisioning is the $400 Jetson Xavier NX, but it is on the very high end of the $200-400 price range I'm thinking of and is using an odd in-house-designed ARMv8.2A chip that is already a few years old.

I'm in the position where I think things like RasPi are great, but personally would like to play with something similar that has compute power close to a mid-range smartphone released the same year. I would be happy to pay around $300 and am sure there are plenty of people in a similar position. So there is pent up demand, what is keeping this market hole empty?

I suppose, since Nvidia is getting closest to scratching this itch, my dream would be for them to finally properly open-source some mainline kernel graphics drivers (maybe contribute to Nouveau directly!) and to release a new Jetson board for about $250-350 based on Cortex-A78 next year. I suspect those would shock them with the sales figures.



So it seems I missed one board that just about covers what I am looking for previously: The Qualcomm Robotics RB5 Developer Kit. [1][2]

Linaro maintains a Debian Sid build specifically for the board, which is currently running the 5.13 kernel. [3][4]

It is a recent Cortex-A77 based SoC (QRB5165) with plenty of IO, and can be had for $500. NPU is 15 TOPS, so not a slouch, and there's even a vision kit version which comes with a couple of cameras. So it is a bit outside of the price range I was looking for, but not by a huge margin.

  1: https://www.qualcomm.com/products/robotics-rb5-platform
  2: https://www.thundercomm.com/app_en/product/1590131656070623
  3: http://releases.linaro.org/96boards/rb5/linaro/debian/21.08/
  4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNS0laFiowE


A RasPi-quality Linux experience with the compute power of something like the Snapdragon 870 or Dimensity 900 [1] is what I am envisioning. Those chips are available in phones with fancy case/battery/screen/cameras for ~$250. [2]

I just want to trade that for some IO and Linux support.

  1: https://nanoreview.net/en/soc-compare/qualcomm-snapdragon-870-vs-apple-a15-bionic
  2: https://www.kimovil.com/en/where-to-buy-vivo-iqoo-z5x


How good enough is the Coral Ai board at $129.99? [x]

It has quad Cortex-A53 and Cortex-M4F in NXP i.MX 8M packaged SoC.

x: https://coral.ai/products/dev-board

I just want Plan 9front or 9legacy and the Go programming language running on it.


Oh, if you haven't seen it, check out the Khadas VIM3 [1][2]. It's pretty comparable performance to Jetson Nano. [3]

It is a bit more capable than the Coral board and is a favorite of the Armbian team. Cheaper and better availability too.

It still suffers from the trappings of running on the Cortex-A73 generation though. E.g., it has PCI-e/NVMe support and USB3 support, but you have to decide which one is usable because it doesn't have enough PCI-e lanes.

  1: https://www.khadas.com/vim3
  2: https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/9975526
  3: https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/9193154


Cortex-A53, also of that 5-years-old Cortex-A73 generation. The A5x are the lower-powered variants of the A7*, so these sit below a RasPi 4. The neat bit of this board is the NPU, but it's only 4 TOPS.

There's a lot of showing of those "A[5,7][2,3]" chips in the sub-$150 range.

What I want is A77+ performance, also with a capable GPU, VPU, and NPU. It should sit more in the $250-400 range.


Oh, the nice thing about those i.MX8M based boards, similar to RK3399 ones on the higher end, is that their GPU/VPU has been pretty fully reverse-engineered and kernel mainlined now. That was the biggest announcement for the release of the RasPi OS Bullseye update just the other week: using kernel KMS for graphics by default.

I just want that same level of support for something a few years newer and a good deal faster.




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