Monero is a proof of work cryptocurrency. I like PoW, it is the most secure distributed consensus algorithm we have discovered. If Monero was as popular as Bitcoin, it would use something similar to the energy. None of it is a 'waste of energy'.
I agree with you. It's a waste of energy because that energy is being spent mining BTC, a useless coin that isn't anonymous, private, decentralized, fungible, it isn't even an actual currency. It should be spent mining Monero instead which actually does have all of those properties.
I don't remember who said that crypto is Lululemon, Amway, multi-level marketing for tech guys, but it's amazing the similarities.
In a discussion on Proof of work does not scale, cannot scale, will choke out production in the economy going forward because of its design, a person responds with say "you're right, that product is bad. Don't buy that one instead buy this one".
Does this other one solve any of those problems? Nope, but the person hawking it has purchased a lot of product and gets a cut if you buy into it.
It's amazing how disingenuous crypto conflict of interest has made any and all discussion about crypto.
So you think I'm a multi-level marketer? Is it even possible to prove otherwise? I just happen to believe in that project and like to talk about it. Am I supposed to not talk about this stuff?
I don't particularly care that energy is being spent on cryptocurrency. What I hate is the fact that energy is being spent on bitcoin in particular. The energy is not supposed to be wasted, it's supposed to buy us something. Namely, a decentralized, private, anonymous, uncensorable, unsanctionable digital cash network. Something that could withstand even the might of the US and China if needed.
Bitcoin is not it. At this moment I think Monero is closest to being it. I'm totally open to new ideas.
It's not even 1% of global energy consumption. It's the oil companies who are boiling the world but nobody dares to touch them. The cars, the factories, the developed nations and their comfortable lifestyles supported by such a highly polluting economy. China is the most polluting country in the world, but will the US, Europe stop trading with it? No. How will the west survive without its cheap consumer products? The very computers we're posting this on? Yet I'm expected to care about BTC energy consumption? No, I refuse to care. It's a drop in the ocean compared to the real problems that no government will lift a finger to solve.
For now. As its usage goes up, its energy consumption will go up, <<by design>>. It's crazy that we're even talking about a <<currency>> (!!!) using this much power.
> It's the oil companies who are boiling the world but nobody dares to touch them.
We are working on all of that, I guess you haven't been following the news. It's not easy, but we are.
> The cars, the factories, the developed nations and their comfortable lifestyles supported by such a highly polluting economy.
Same. Electric cars, environmental regulations for factories, increased energy efficiency for houses, etc.
> China is the most polluting country in the world, but will the US, Europe stop trading with it? No.
China's working on it and the US and EU are actually kind of gearing up towards a trade reduction.
> No. How will the west survive without its cheap consumer products? The very computers we're posting this on?
These computers are also used for work, hobbies, making people's lives better.
> No, I refuse to care. It's a drop in the ocean compared to the real problems that no government will lift a finger to solve.
It's not a drop. It's something we created about a decade ago and it uses up a 100th of the energy the entire world is using. That's crazy. And those real problems are being tackled, you just don't know it or refuse to see or think it's simple and easy to solve.
> And those real problems are being tackled, you just don't know it or refuse to see or think it's simple and easy to solve.
Okay. Let's wait for them to solve the big problems first before we focus on inconsequential stuff like cryptocurrency. Once that's taken care of, we'll see if proof of work remains an issue.
In absolute terms, sure. In relative terms, it's nothing. Removing BTC energy consumption from the equation barely affects the result. In order to actually do something about climate change, humanity needs to tackle that big 80-90% chunk of energy consumption coming from much more problematic industries. Cryptocurrency is a nuisance by comparison, a minor problem.
I think if you're going to promote this view, you really need to look into the energy growth rate of Bitcoin.
It has doubled in the past 6 months. And gone up 10x over the past 4 years. How many more times can it go up 10x before you would consider it no longer nothing, and now a concern for the world?
The first rule of holes is "stop digging". We are in a hole with energy consumption. And we've set off an automated digger to sit next to us. People are shouting, if we want to get out of this hole, yes we need to fill it, but first need to do something immediately about this automated digging machine.
In my option (and I'm not singling you out as many in crypto feel this way), it is incredibly backwards for anyone to both say stopping climate change and energy consumption is a priority - and that promoting a growing energy beast isn't a huge concern to be addressed.
I'm not ignoring or dismissing the problem. I just think it's not a priority right now. I also completely support ideas that make cryptocurrency mining more sustainable. In this thread I had an amazing discussion about using the waste heat generated by miners for useful purposes. We definitely need more of that.
I don't like these posts claiming cryptocurrency is literally destroying the world and must be banned or regulated out of existence. Those need a reality check, and the reality is cryptocurrency is not even 1% of world energy consumption.
Why would law-abiding citizens need untraceable, anonymous cash (which is used in 99.99% of crime). This is not a good argument. There are plenty of uses for privacy beyond crime. It is the equivalence of the 'you have nothing to hide' argument, which is total authoritarian bs.
Whatever a law-abiding person does. We should not be subjected to total government surveillance because someone somewhere might evade taxes or launder money. We fight hard to maintain our privacy in all fronts, there's no reason for finances to be any different.
But it is not Bitcoin. It likely will never have the attention of large capital holders (eg: Financial Institutions). Ignoring the regulatory risks (which absolutely exist), IMHO the real critical risk is that bugs or bad math will break the economic model.
With transparent blockchains like BTC, you can trace every satoshi. With opaque chains like XMR, you risk that a bug in the code will permit invisible inflation. This has happened before! (https://jonasnick.github.io/blog/2017/05/23/exploiting-low-o...).
The same problem applies to all ZK based solutions -- Zcash, Grin, Mina... You are one mistake away from invisible inflation that will sap all the value from the coin.
> Ignoring the regulatory risks (which absolutely exist)
I'm of the opinion that Monero is a failure if it can't withstand regulation.
> IMHO the real critical risk is that bugs or bad math will break the economic model.
I agree. I don't think I have sufficient cryptography knowledge to evaluate this risk but I acknowledge its existence. For the moment I trust that the Monero developers will do everything possible to prevent this from happening.
Still, BTC is way too valuable for something that failed to become everything it was envisioned to be. It seems to be driven by brand name alone. XMR is way too undervalued and undermined for a coin that at least tried to address the majority of problems in BTC.
