Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login

I wish the field of psychiatry was mature and used different words for depression caused by your environment and life stressors vs depression caused by brain chemistry vs depression caused by ignoring nutrition. It's not fair to compare these types of depression as worse or less worse and each would need different kinds of treatment protocols. The current definition is just based on symptoms and trying therapy and medication until something works.

There is a lot of promising research being done about the relationship between your gut microbiome and depression and other mental health issues.

Hopefully more research is done in populations across the world because it seems like currently most of the literature is focused on a western population.

"High-fat consumption not only leads to obesity but also causes widespread inflammation of body systems. The gut microbiome may alter the harmful effects of the high-fat diet, improving mood and behavior. By modulating gut microbiome composition through proper nutrition and probiotics, we also help decrease anxiety and depression [4]." [0]

[0] (2020) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7510518/

[4] (2018) https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S088915911...




I do hope all of this research will bubble up to solid advice and / or legislation though; saying "just fix your diet!" has big "thanks I'm cured" energy because it's a pretty vague statement. Plus, especially in the US, getting 'good' food is a challenge; there's many "food deserts" in the US where the only source of food is the local fast food chains. And - from an outsider's point of view, correct me if I'm wrong - things like fresh fruit and vegetables are reserved for the 'elitist' grocery store chains like Whole Foods.


Almost any grocery store in the US has fresh fruit and vegetables, even Walmart. Not every location in the US has an easily accessible grocery store. Further US food subsidies are huge but don’t apply to fruits or vegetables so their relatively more expensive.

Food banks are also significantly less likely to carry fresh vegetables vs canned ones.


Frozen fruits and vegetables aren't bad. And you don't necessarily need fresh ones, you can also eat canned ones. And in any case, just eating a better macro diet with a multivitamin works better than munching on twinkies all day or hunting for elusive vegetables.


You’re wrong. Fresh fruit and veg is not reserved for elitist grocery chains.


I completely understand and agree with you. Public policy has a hard time matching scientific guidelines, it's hard to generalize at a global scale.

I agree about the "thanks I'm cured" energy and that's why I included citations to show that it does help some people. It's worth trying. It's not the only reason for depression, but it is the easiest and has the least side effects in terms of treatment options. No constant cost of therapy and no drugs and side effects. But if you have multiple things causing issues with mental health, you're going to crave the unhealthy food to cope. That makes adherence to a healthy diet harder too.

I think the most promising recent legislation regarding food has been Oaxaca, Mexico banning sugary drinks and junk food for those under the age of 18 in 2020. [0] Which also has specific research backing that age group. [1]

There's might be some debate eventually about high-fat vs high-sugar being worse, but over-processed junk food is a good catch all I think. Neither is healthy for a gut biome although high-fat/lipid is talked about more often. [2]

I personally have a theory that high-sugar is worse than high-fat. But I have no research I can point to backing it other than the idea that low carb diets seem to do better than low fat diets. Even though diets at the end of the day it's calories in, calories out, in this context not all calories are equal. I think self measuring blood sugar levels are going to be the next big thing for diet trends.

I do agree that fresh fruits and vegetables are harder to find in places of lower socioeconomic status, but that's a more complex issue than only "elite" grocery stores reserving the fresh fruit.

GMO fruit is just as good as organic. The marketing in the west makes it seem like organic is the only way to go, but frozen fruits and non organic vegetables are just as healthy if not healthier. [3] You generally have to use harsher pesticides for organic foods anyway to get good yield. [4]

The bigger issue is that time is a also luxury and preparing a healthy meal takes time.

People who can afford that time are also affluent enough to be able to shop at elite places like Whole Foods. The supply chain for fresher fruits and vegetables means the cost is higher so it only sells at 'elite' chains where there is a demand and people can afford it.

If you're working long hours, maybe two jobs, you're not going to have time to cook, the cheapest reasonable meal is the processed fast food place.

I don't have a solution but with enough research, public policy won't be able to ignore the detrimental cost of high-sugar and high-fat and highly processed foods. One day I think we'll look at food today the way we see nicotine and cigarettes of the past, and I'm not alone in that sentiment.

[0] https://www.npr.org/2020/09/14/912029399/we-had-to-take-acti...

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7284805/

[2] 2019 Microbiome and Mental Health, Specifically as It Relates to Adolescents

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs11920-019-1075-...

https://sci-hubtw.hkvisa.net/10.1007/s11920-019-1075-3

[3] https://extension.umn.edu/preserving-and-preparing/science-f...

[4] https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2021/02/author-robert...


> I wish the field of psychiatry was mature and used different words for depression caused by [...]

They may use the same umbrella diagnosis, but when you seek treatment different causes of depression are all separately tested for. Food-mediated things are not top of mind, not in the least because nutrition is poorly understood and incredibly personal besides. That's something much easier investigated on your own (something you are taught the tools for when you seek therapy).


I have sought therapy, I was not separately tested. I was not taught these tools. That's my personal experience with therapy.

Not every therapist is the same. There's an even bigger problem when it comes to the standards of therapy.

I have strong opinions about this because I have been through the system. I prefer not to go into further detail however.


In my experience the difference between a fast (but incomplete) diagnosis and a much slower (but comprehensive) one is going to a single psychiatrist vs an institute. Your point is reasonable, of course. There is big variability between doctors.


> I wish the field of psychiatry was mature and used different words for depression caused by [...]

Isn't this covered by "situational depression" (adjustment disorder with depressed mood) VS "clinical depression" (major depressive disorder), and the fact that diagnosis entails excluding physical conditions that cause similar symptoms?

None of the various depressive disorders (nor other psychiatric disorders) deal with defining a cause, but with describing a set of symptoms.


The treatment is similar regardless. Which is the real issue I am getting at.

The point I am arguing agrees with the second thing you mentioned, psychiatry is about treating the symptoms not cause.

Should they be both treated using the same medication?

Situational depression doesn't "count" as real depression.


Indeed, the women in the article has a ton of gut biome. I'm sure the ice crime diet didn't give her the greatest flora known to Frito-Lay.

Perhaps a fecal transplant, way less invasive, would do her some good. South Park even did an episode on this topic.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: