Every time I look at this I'm absolutely baffled by the quality of little games, although many being clones.
I just wasted 30' in 1 click. Something I can't say about my steam library. I think it has to do with the instant-ON aspect of the games. <click> -> start, immersed. As opposed to many screens, "oh that needs an update"...
>I've heard TikTok described similarly compared with YouTube. Makes me wonder if there's room for a "TikTok for games"
IMO it's the remixing that makes TikTok work. The equivalent would be every game is open sourced and remixable in easy ways. Like the way you can take one TikTok's video audio and recontextualize the meaning with your own video. Or an audio track can become the format that everyone follows by using the audio.
Pico8 has remixing too. You can view the code for any cart, and then download it, change the code/art/sounds a bit, and reupload it. There’s a super active Celeste Classic modding scene in pico8 for this reason.
I absolutely think there's room for it, but I have doubts about how feasible it is. With tools like bitsy its possible to create an interesting game really fast, but nowhere near as fast as a tiktok video, and the "time to variety of things you can do" ratio for video is far better than it is for software.
Maybe it is possible though, would love to see the day if so
>I think it has to do with the instant-ON aspect of the games. <click> -> start, immersed. As opposed to many screens, "oh that needs an update"...
I found exactly the same thing. I really got into the Sega Mega Drive over the past year and a bit, despite having a PS4 and modern PC. It's not because the games from 30 years ago are necessarily better, but when you only play games for 2-3 hours every few weeks, a 50GB install followed by a 20GB patch really kills the experience.
Wanted to play Rocket league with my friends one night. Had to reinstall and download 16 GB! For some radio cars driving around in an arena, what the H? This should be 500 MB tops, and that would be generous. But it was nothing to my gamer friends, they couldn't understand why I'm so upset. Look, I've got kids and I have no time to wait for a 16 GB download when all I have is 2 hours to play. Another time I wanted to play some Minesweeper and found out it's not included in Windows anymore, you have to create an _account_ with Microsoft to download it, and lo and behold, it's over 100 MB. Like really? This should not be much more than 100 KB, 1 MB to be generous.
When it comes down to it, developers are disrespecting users, whether it's disregard for the compute (Web slowness), bandwith or storage. I can understand if textures are higher res these days, but in many cases I suspect it has more to do with skins, IAP and general developer laziness.
Buying and downloading Valheim was a breath of fresh air though, something like 1 GB and a beautiful game.
>If you're purchasing a game right before playing it, a 50GB install and a 20GB patch is probably easier than getting your hands on a mega drive game.
To be fair, one half of my house is a literal online retro games store, so perhaps my experience circa 2020 is not the norm.
But also to be fair, back in the day you could simply walk down to the nearby shops, buy the cartridge and play it as soon as you got home.
I'm not necessarily making an argument as to why everyone should own a Mega Drive in 2021 (although if you enjoy collecting physical media, there are some fantastic hidden gems on that machine - my personal favourites are Rocket Knight Adventures, Alisia Dragoon and Shadow Dancer!), but modern console gaming has become a lot less streamlined than it used to be.
With the PS5 and Xbox Series X emphasising their ultra-fast SSDs, I can only see this becoming worse.
When I launch a "modern" game, the auto-updater "jumps right in" and plays with my system. Sometimes it loses, like in the reported cases of Steam wiping whole disks. Then, sooner or later, if everything goes well, I might have an opportunity to play the intended game instead of "Storage Space Manager 2021 SSD Edition", "Backup Busters", or more hardcore multiplayer titles like "Server Overload".
PICO-8 is fantastic! If you know the platformer Celeste, it started off originally as a PICO-8 game for a game jam. It really feels to me as an exemplar of 'constraints beget creativity'.
There are a few similar open source projects, like Tic-80 and Liko-12. Both can be programmed with Lua, but Tic-80 can also be programmed with others like Javascript and Wren and the porting process can be fairly simple.
And arguably Tic-80 is even better than Pico-8 because you aren't limited to using Lua, but can write games in a variety of languages including Javascript and the Lisp-like Fennel.
"Limits" are exactly what makes Pico-8 awesome. I definitely appreciate the changes Tic-80 offers, but Pico-8 and the surrounding community definitely have an x-factor that the "clones" are missing.
At least in TIC-80, the faux retro limits are still there (including the annoying low-res font which is a bit silly -- actual 8-bit computers didn't have fonts that bad). The main thing that it gives you over PICO-8 (besides being free) is the ability to use different languages. I don't think there is anything particularly retro about Lua -- it didn't even exist in the 8-bit era these fantasy consoles are nostalgic for. There's a (paid) fantasy console on steam that uses BASIC, which is at least period faithful.
There's nothing awesome about being artificially hamstrung with the kinds of games you can make. PICO-8's limits are crippling. You are required to perform an absurd amount of hacking which, while of interest to some types, completely bypasses the integrated tools which are supposed to help you make games. It's a fatally schizophrenic tool.
If you've spent time in the community you'll see different types of equally interesting projects. Lots of games that are able to provide you a fair amount of entertainment or some that really push the limits of what you'd _think_ is possible. The constraints really help you with scope creep as well as you have to decide what's important to the game.
Brief selection of some projects things that I personally enjoyed[1]
I remember when the first thing you had to do in order to program a videogame was creating your own TIFF or BMP parser. That's ok if you enjoy that sort of thing, but it gets in the way when what you want is a working videogame, not a tech demo. That kind of limitation, frankly, sucked.
On the other hand nowadays the problem is the opposite: there's so many ways to do stuff. So many options. Which engine. Which language. What graphics pipeline. Which Entity-Component System, etc.
The trouble is that we are back to the previous problem. The tech decisions get in the way of the creative process.
What Pico8 does right is limiting the amount of tech-related decisions you have to make. That frees mental cycles in order to be creative and build something that works. I know from the get go that I've got 8x8 16-color bitmaps, and that's it. No time wasted parsing TIFFs, and also no time wasted choosing tech. You start and go.
All that said, I don't think Pico-8 is for everyone. If you feel restricted by it, perhaps you will be more comfortable with other engines. I program games as a hobby an I am very limited on the amount of time I can dedicate to it. I tend to make small 1-evening prototypes that are never finished. Pico-8 is awesome for that. It's definitely awesome for me, at least.
> What Pico8 does right is limiting the amount of tech-related decisions you have to make.
How is it a tech-related decision if I want to add another sprite, but can't, because PICO-8 decided for me that I'm only allowed to have a specific amount? It's completely arbitrary and literally stops a game's development! That's not what a game development tool is supposed to do!
You are saying it as if it happens suddenly and by surprise. Those limits are presented since you open the tool.
A screwdriver isn't "good" at putting nails down. It would be pointless to say that it's not a good screwdriver because it doesn't drive nails. Pico-8 is like that. It only allows a certain amount of everything: sprites, sounds, colors, even program tokens.
I must point out that it is possible to drive a nail using a screwdriver. You hold the screwdriver from the metal end, and repeatedly hit the nail head with the handle. It's a bit awkward. (But also sort of impressive. Like the people that do 3D stuff with Pico-8).
There are options out there to go around most of the limits if you really want to. You might have to sacrifice something. You need to be creative, the same as with the screwdriver. I actually enjoy that.
It's nice for you then to enjoy, but there is absolutely no reason there couldn't simply be a checkbox for "unlimited stuff" in the thing. If you want to impose artificial limits upon yourself, I'm glad you have that ability. I want to make games, and PICO-8 is shit for that.
Commerical PICO-8 games are a minority but they exist. PICO-8 can export a standalone Windows, Linux or Mac executable, or a web page. The license explicitly grants the right for authors to sell exported games.
PICO-8 lets you export cartdata to standard files, so you could "sell" it just as much as anyone else on Gumroad selling access to files. Or maybe you want to introduce some PICO-8 DRM? It's possible, as far as I know.
As a Dutch person I would not. "Gezellig" generally implies people physically being together. The spontaneous atmosphere it usually refers to is nigh impossible to emulate in a virtual environment.
I never thought Gezellig is about people though. Wouldn't a nice warm sofa with blankets while you consume your favorite media and have nice beer and no responsibilities for the day sound gezellig.
It's one of the classic "hard to explain" Dutch words. Only the German "gemütlich" comes close.
The word contains "gezel", an old Dutch word for companion, which is where the [ multiple people ] qualification comes from. We also find it in "gezelschap", meaning "a group of people", and "metgezel", meaning "close companion".
But where those words only refer to the collective itself, "gezellig" indicates more than just being together. It encompasses a specific kind of uplifting atmosphere as well.
Like I mentioned before, there is an element of spontaneity. But more important is that everyone involved is either having a good time, or it can be expected that everyone involved will have a good time.
It usually implies an event that will bring people closer together. There are hints of an explicit freedom to be yourself (a temporary absence of social judgement) and the clear desire of everyone involved to sustain a good mood all around.
For those that are familiar with the concept, the casual playing of a board game usually qualifies as "gezellig" (unless very fanatical players are involved). A plan to go do something with one or more friends can be gezellig. A gathering that turns out to be a lot more jolly than expected is gezellig as well.
I'm bothered by this comment. PICO-8 is one of the most vibrant communities in existence for beginners making games. Thousands of people have made thousands of games with this software. The price point to purchase is extremely cheap, supports the person that created it, and the licensing allows people who purchase the engine to distribute it in their own games. It is one of the most open, empowering, user-supporting pieces of software in games.
I think this community has a huge problem with thinking that releasing the source code to things automatically makes them accessible and automatically empowers other people, but there are plenty of open-source projects that are actively user-hostile. The reality is that all too often on this site when people say "I wish this was open source" they aren't saying that out of any interest for how that would make the project better or create a better community, but instead are saying it from a standpoint that only considers how it would benefit them personally.
I'm sure there's a lot of people who only say "I wish this were open source" because that would benefit them personally.
I'm sure there's a lot of open-source projects that are the exact opposite of vibrant communities, and the exact opposite of empowering and user-supporting.
However, as a great man once said, "No Taxation Without Representation". People using PICO-8 and writing games for PICO-8 aren't paying taxes as such, but they are investing their time and creative energy, their efforts advertise the PICO-8 platform, and thus they enrich Lexaloffle just as surely as if they'd filled out a 1040 form. Some people want to be reassured that they have some measure of control over a thing before they invest time, money, or energy into it. It doesn't have to be open-source, but for software that's more legally sound and practical than staging an armed insurrection and writing a constitution.
A lot of people probably don't care what Lexaloffle does as long as their existing games keep working, many people probably trust Lexaloffle's reign to remain benevolent and just indefinitely, and I don't know any reason (beyond human frailty) why that wouldn't be true. But some people want a better guarantee of future performance than mere past performance, and that's where (some) calls for open-source come from.
For me, I'm okay with it being closed source and I'm happy to support Lexaloffle because as I see it, PICO-8 doesn't really have a "moat". First, there's no particularly exotic technology in the closed-source run-time, and secondly the fantasy console limits mean that the games are small enough that it wouldn't be hard to port them to a new run-time if needed.
So for me it is sufficient guarantee to know that even if PICO-8 is closed source right now, a compatible open-source clone would doubtlessly spring up (I suspect there some already, but I haven't felt the need to look) and be settled on by the community almost overnight if Lexaloffle ever ceased to be benevolent. Paradoxically, knowing that is why I'm happy to stick with the official PICO-8 and Lexaloffle for now. It might not be open source, but there's still a clear exit strategy.
> The reality is that all too often on this site when people say "I wish this was open source" they aren't saying that out of any interest for how that would make the project better or create a better community, but instead are saying it from a standpoint that only considers how it would benefit them personally.
I'm sorry you're bothered by my comment; it's simply an expression of how I feel.
> PICO-8 is one of the most vibrant communities in existence for beginners making games. Thousands of people have made thousands of games with this software....licensing allows people who purchase the engine to distribute it in their own games.
Windows is also very popular, and it is also proprietary software. It enables lots of other people's jobs to exist, but that doesn't mean that it's ethical to deprive its users of the source code to the software that's running on their machine.
>The price point to purchase is extremely cheap, supports the person that created it...
I don't have a problem with donating money to help out a project; I have a problem with the software not respecting the four freedoms (liberties) of free software. (https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html)
> It is one of the most open, empowering, user-supporting pieces of software...
It isn't open and it isn't user-supporting or empowering. Users don't have access to the source code, and in that way the developer holds power over the users. Bruce Perens, who really popularized the idea of 'open source' once said "When I say 'Open Source', I mean the same thing that Richard means when he says 'Free Software'."
> there are plenty of open-source projects that are actively user-hostile.
would you like to provide some specific examples?
> aren't saying that out of any interest for how that would make the project better or create a better community, but instead are saying it from a standpoint that only considers how it would benefit them personally.
A better community would be able to improve the software itself with access to the source code. Also, simply because it-being-libre-software would benefit me personally doesn't mean it wouldn't also benefit the rest of the community equally as much.
But why? It’s so cheap and so much love and dedication has gone into it. I bought my copy literally years ago and it’s provided so much joy. I actually kinda wish the opposite that there were more small projects that could have this kind of humble success. Particularly in a world where much more profit motivated enterprises give free software a shitty stick.
Why? It’d be pretty simple to make a clone of, honestly, just SDL2 with some Lua bindings and some neat tools. The special part about it isn’t the code. It’s the concept of it, the execution, and the community that has grown up around it.
Supporting the developer and getting into the smart, welcoming community are well worth the trivial amount being asked for. There is something to be said about a project that is driven by a uniform philosophy to deliver a unique and singular product. I think a lot of projects suffer from a "too many cooks" problem, and lose sight of their guiding philosophy in an attempt to compromise with naysayers. Zep doesn't do that at all... almost to a fault... but I respect his vision and adherance to keeping PICO-8 a pure representation of his vision.
If price is a problem for anyone, you may already own a copy. PICO-8 was (quietly?) included as part of the legendary itch.io mega "Bundle for Racial Justice."
I never said I had a problem donating money to help; what I have a problem with is lack of access to, and lack of share-ability (not sure if that's a word, but I'm going with it anyway) of the source code.
Seems like the sort of beloved project with solo maintainer that could go open source in the future. I wonder if there is a common approach to allow this to happen like open source foundation working with him plus community fundraising. I'd support such an effort with 10x the amount I paid for the product.
A very similar open source project, Tic-80[0], already exists. It has tools for sprite generation and music creation. It also supports Lua, in addition to Fennel (natively), JS, Wren, and Moonscript.
You don't have to use PICO-8's text editor. You can just open up the p8 file in any text editor and hack away. VS Code has an extension for .p8 files as well which does syntax highlighting correctly.
On a side-note: How Voxatron does it's rendering purely software-based was something that impressed me the most. Tried to replicate that for a pet project, but failed along the way.
I just wasted 30' in 1 click. Something I can't say about my steam library. I think it has to do with the instant-ON aspect of the games. <click> -> start, immersed. As opposed to many screens, "oh that needs an update"...