Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

I'm not angry, I'm hostile. That you think the only possible position from which to take issue with what you did is FOMO speaks volumes.

I'm not arguing that you violated any laws. You made it very clear that you went to great lengths to avoid doing anything that could have resulted in consequences to yourself.

EDIT: Since HN's rate limiting won't let me reply for a few hours, I'll just address the replies inline:

I'm not jealous. I'm sure noduerme made a sizable chunk of money with the whole operation at the time but their profile says they're now working as a taxi driver and sold all their bitcoin before the peak. They probably have a lot of other interesting stories to tell and that's nice. But dismissing any hostility or criticism as jealousy is thought terminating and frankly below even HN's standards.

Based on their backstory in the replies, I can see where their attitude comes from, but they severely underestimate how big of a problem gambling addiction is and how much of the profit of the gambling industry relies on it.

It's nice if the casino their parents worked at turned away obvious addicts but the word "obvious" is doing a lot of work here and there are also clear business reasons you don't want obvious addicts in your establishment the same way bars will be happy to have repeat customers buying drinks for five hours every day but will turn them away if they get blackout drunk or unsightly. "Not doing it for the money" may give you a clean conscience but it doesn't change the consequences of your actions.

It's also important to point out that online gambling is by its nature functionally anonymous for the gambler (even if you record IDs for legal reasons). The online casino isn't going to turn away the addict until they can no longer pay or have to resort to fraud to keep up the habit. And even if the casino implements limits, the proliferation of online casinos makes it considerably easier to go hopping than if you have to physically drive somewhere.

Gambling addiction not only ruins the lives of the addict but also impacts their friends and family, not just financially. It's true that not every person who gambles is an addict but the line between an expensive hobby and a managed addiction is hard to draw until you undeniably cross it.

But if you need a comment on HN to explain to you why gambling and especially online gambling is bad, a comment on HN isn't going to be enough to convince you.



Ok, I respectfully understand where you're coming from, and I've struggled with gambling addiction myself. I personally do not think it's immoral to offer games of chance to people, as long as they understand the odds and you're not cheating them. And believe me, running a small online casino mostly by myself with my own bankroll was literally setting alarms all night waking me up when someone was killing the tables and potentially going to bankrupt me. I got to know my big players (most of whom went on to become Bitcoin millionaires, since the early adopters were the only ones gambling on Bitcoin casinos in 2011)... but beyond that, I really don't think offering gambling is immoral as long as everyone knows what they're signing up for. I've dealt cards for a living, too. I don't drive a taxi anymore. But I've seen all sides of life. I don't think you can judge so easily. Yeah, big corporations suck and they screw people into debt, and gambling addiction does ruin peoples' lives, but I knew my players, and I don't think what I did personally hurt anybody. They came together to enjoy games, and yeah it was for real money, but it was also a community and they were there for fun - they could have gambled for a lot more money on other sites. One player built a puzzle in his escape room in Amsterdam in honor of / based on a game I designed. Like a bar, this is something people do for enjoyment, and you don't need to stand out there with a sign saying we're all going to hell. But I do get it and I'm not a fan of the companies that take advantage of human weakness and shake the dimes out of people's pockets. I was just trying to have a good time and give other people a good time.

Total profit from 2 years running the site? About $50k. It was a hobby. I never quit my job. I also turned away 95% of the hits because they were coming from America.

[edit] I should add that I strongly advised other BTC site owners, especially casino owners, to follow certain guidelines, and watched one of them who I had told to be careful launch, make about $1M with one game on a crappy website, and get jailed within a year. That wasn't the trajectory I was interested in.


Also I want to add... I had a feature on the site from day one that would let players set their own deposit limits through any date they chose. Once set, the limits could not be raised or revoked through that date, and any coin they sent beyond the limit would automatically be sent back. This was prominently displayed on the website along with an entire section of problem gambling resources. Some users did use it. Others I would put into the system involuntarily. The average rake on my non-poker games was about 2.5%, and some of the puzzle games I designed had a theoretical >100% payout if you could, e.g., solve a randomly spun Rubik's cube consistently in under 60 seconds. (No one ever hit over 100% on that one over time, though. If I had ever come across anything like that I would have written a bot to solve it... and I was waiting for a player to do so, so I could make them a partner).




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: