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You risk being murdered and your business put on fire?

Stop romanticizing it.

Yes, some states started from violent protection based tribes (not all of them). This was not taxation. There were/are states and actual laws in the places Bedouin extort people for money under threat of violence. They provided no service in return execpt the promise that they themselves would not harm you.

Absolutely no, extorting "protection" money is not OK and it is not taxation.



> You risk being murdered and your business put on fire?

I mean he literally didn't say that. He said that he risks being put in prison.

In general, that's in effect the same. You lose your property, and largely fall into cycles of institutionalized crime.

Although, I don't really agree with it since I don't see many modern countries putting people in long term prison for just taxation issues.


I know he didn't say that. I tried to say (perhaps unsuccessfully) That this is a different between taxes and "protection" by crime groups.

Rubbers like the one we're discussing shot you where you stand there is no "system" or "state" or "prison".


The difference is marginal in my view. The only difference now is that they wear suits and bleed you slowly instead of putting you out of your misery with one shot.

Time for a coffee.


State taxes and violent robberies.

Not a marginal difference, but I give up. You need to discuss the matter with people who went through the latter.


You might also want to discuss the matter with people who went through the former...


Like… everybody?

I pay taxes. Seems pretty different to me.


The difference is obfuscation and normalization.

At the end of the day they're still taking your resources under threat of violence.


The commenter was instructed to ask people who have actually paid taxes. My point is that everyone does. I’m a valid person to ask my experience. It’s not scary. I doubt anybody who has been mugged would say the same.



> You risk being murdered and your business put on fire?

Yeah. Depending on the details of how you go about not paying your taxes I can see it happening. Heck, even if you pay your taxes the tax men might do it to you anyway if you do the kind of business they don't like they think you're unsympathetic enough and can get some political brownie points for screwing you[0](though thankfully this is very rare).

> There were/are states and actual laws

What makes them "actual laws". Surely the Bedouin have customs regarding the right and wrong amounts to charge, methods of payment, penalties for non-payment, etc, etc and those who work outside of those customs would be subject to penalty as a corrupt or rogue agent of the state would be in a "normal" state.

[0] https://i.redd.it/y57gwp4y81q01.jpg

Just because they didn't write it down in legalese doesn't mean it's not a law in practical terms.


I think that the common ground is the non-optionality.

From what I can understand the point here is that you cannot choose not to pay


>You risk being murdered and your business put on fire?

Small difference.




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