Hmm, some of the details of this story doesn't seem to agree with most Apple-watchers (as in people who try to figure out what the new features on the new products will be).
For example, the story mentions the addition of blood pressure sensors as a reason for the issues:
> The next Apple Watch will come with new features such as blood pressure measurement, they said, which means production involves fitting a greater number of components into a similar size body.
Mark Gurman of Bloomberg says there is "no chance" [0] that the Apple Watch 7 will have blood pressure sensors. He points to his story with Debby Wu [1] instead:
> The new watches also have screen technology that brings that display closer to the cover glass using a different lamination technique, Bloomberg previously reported. That display layer may be causing some of the production woes, the person said.
It's probably a combination of larger watch sizes, new techniques/technologies, the usual upgrades, COUPLED with covid-related disruptions that are causing the delays!
>some of the details of this story doesn't seem to agree with most Apple-watchers
This is Nikkei, they have an exceptionally poor track record on anything Apple, as a matter of fact I cant even remember single decent signal coming from them. They are even worst than Digitimes.
Basically a few years ago every single news media saw Apple headline drive click rate, and they decide to join the rumour race. And you mention Mark Gurman of Bloomberg, but before ~2015/2016 he was at 9to5mac.
> This is Nikkei, they have an exceptionally poor track record on anything Apple, as a matter of fact I cant even remember single decent signal coming from them. They are even worst than Digitimes.
> worse than Digitimes
What's wrong with digitimes?
My own guess though is that manufacturing in Vietnam not working out for them.
Re potential features such as blood pressure, there's an ArsTechnica article [1] today that might be useful - if you like Ars, that is.
Headline and sub-head read:
> Report: Big new health features are coming to the Apple Watch—just not this year
> Temperature and blood glucose tracking could arrive as soon as 2022.
Ars refers to the conflicting analyst reports in its intro:
Analysts and reporters have published conflicting reports about what to expect from the next Apple Watch. Some, like Nikkei, claimed it will have new health sensors, but others like Bloomberg's Mark Gurman have said that this year's model will offer no major new hardware features amidst production constraints.
I wonder what the accuracy of that is vs on-wrist measurement of something like SpO2. If it’s anything like the latter then it’s essentially nothing more than a worthless gimmick.
I had an samsung active watch. It took them over a year to roll out blood pressure and only worked in conjunction with a samsung phone(although the functionality itself had nothing to do with the phone).
It was decently accurate at reproducing results that were close to the calibration device. I do remember people complaining that it was only accurate when the BP was close to what you calibrated it to though. Say for example you measure in rest and then you try to measure during heavy exercise the heavy exercise measurement was off.
> It's probably a combination of larger watch sizes, new techniques/technologies, the usual upgrades, COUPLED with covid-related disruptions that are causing the delays!
I believe the explanation is much simpler, and it is they havent't yet finished moving manufacturing to Foxconn's Vietnam factory
If you use your watch for just athletic stuff and getting push notifications, Garmin watches like the Venu are a much better piece of hardware and software. The battery last for days, the app on the phone is better, the tracking is better, the sensor integration (Ant+) is better, and there are entire ecosystems that revolve around the Garmin/Strava combo.
IF you are looking for more of a SOAW (Smartphone On a Wrist), I think iWatch is probably the best thing on the market.
If you JUST want a pedometer, heart rate and sleep monitor that syncs with Apple Health and can also send push notifications when in Bluetooth range of your phone... then the going price on Amazon right now is around $30-35. For something that looks nearly identical to an Apple Watch, and has a battery life of 7-10 days. And for which you can find non-proprietary metal or leather replacement bands for ten to twenty bucks.
It's insane at this point. I resisted getting a smartwatch for years, because I like the aesthetics of traditional analog watches, and did not want to charge a battery every day or two. Especially when the cheaper options a few years ago often required you to disassemble the band to reveal a USB male plug for charging, instead of just attaching a magnet to the back.
But for "starter" smartwatches, prices have fallen and quality risen to the point now where you can try one out as a next-to-free impulse purchase, and just shrug and move on if it's not for you.
Now I'm hooked on it. I don't so much care about push notifications for calls and emails, etc (i.e. my phone is already right there). But it's pushed me to walk about twice as many steps per day as I used to, and get about an hour more sleep per night. I've lost over 20 pounds since buying mine six months ago, from no conscious lifestyle changes beyond that. Plus the aesthetics have grown on me, so I don't think I'll ever be going back. On the other hand, I wouldn't even consider "upgrading" to a true Apple Watch until their battery life improves 5-10x.
Battery life hasn't been an issue for me on the Series 5. I put it on when I wake up at 7am and when I go to bed around 10:30 I usually have about 40% battery life left. I don't sleep with mine on, so it charges at night, but even if you did you could probably get by on charging it for about an hour a day. My wife plops hers on the charger when we watch TV in the evening.
The one nice thing I've enjoyed on this version is I went with the one with cell service. I haven't used it a ton, but it -is- nice to be able to leave your phone at home. I wouldn't intentionally make or accept calls on it, but having kids you always want to be reachable so in the case of an emergency it works fantastic.
It's a good way to force yourself to disconnect from work email and social media for a bit, but still be reachable. Leave the phone at home, and just wear the watch. You can still take a call or reply to a text from the wife in a pinch, but doing email or checking twitter/Facebook/hacker news isn't an option.
I try and do this now when I go out with the kids to the park so I'm not tempted to be buried in my phone.
I put on my $30 watch on Monday, and usually have 30-40% the following Monday when I put it on the charger again for an hour. I’ve developed the habit of charging it during a weekly meeting Zoom call that I have at work.
If you really want a “smartwatch on your wrist”, because you’ve wired up all your home appliances into Apple’s ecosystem or some use case like that, then great. A smartphone’s battery life may be acceptable.
But if your use case includes, “track my heart rate 24 hours a day, my overnight sleeping patterns, and be an alarm clock and practical timepiece”, then paying hundreds of dollars for 18-36 hours of battery doesn’t really make a lot sense against the other options available now.
> But if your use case includes, “track my heart rate 24 hours a day, my overnight sleeping patterns, and be an alarm clock and practical timepiece”,
That's how I use my Apple Watch. But I don't leave it on for a week straight, I take it off and charge it when I hop in the shower. I haven't found a use case for the shower yet, but it could happen.
I still don't understand how a watch with declared battery life of 18 hours is considered acceptable, or even supposed to exist in 2021. Any competitor offers at least 5x of such an essential parameter for a wearable.
Necessary edit: don't get me wrong, I understand how useful or good it can be feature-wise, but this is still a huge dealbreaker.
I haven't found the battery life to be an issue. Part of that is how quick the Apple Watch is to charge. I throw it on the charger when I wake up, and it's charged by the time I get out of the shower.
Exactly this. At some point I stopped being a nightly charger for all my Apple devices and find more convenient times to charge. Sort of lazy, but I would rather have my phone within reach while I'm sleeping and plug it in when I can't use it (shower, out running with my watch). Same goes with the Watch. More useful to be with me while sleeping.
This. Getting something like the Belkin 3-in-1 Wireless Charger with MagSafe at work has been a lifesaver. I get to work, throw on my phone, watch, and AirPods, and within an hour everything's charged back up. Having a few charging pucks around the house also helps.
I like wearing my watch at night for sleep tracking, and the longer it's on my wrist, the more data it's capturing, which my hope is that in the years to come, can be harnessed for improving my health, somehow.
Sure but how is that a competitor for an apple watch? At least a competitor to me would have to be able to run the equivalent of Fantastical and Omnifocus.
Absolutely, though in terms of battery life I find it quite odd to compare a barebone watch like the Garmin to apple or samsung watches. I am not surprised that a casio watch has a better battery life either.
Sure but how many of those are actually comptition for Samsung Galaxy watches or Apple Watches? I have a Fenix 5 but wouldn't consider that to be competition for an Apple watch due to the terrible display and lack of apps. Easy to get a weeks worth of battery if the device doesn't run anything.
I felt that a battery that lasts one day is better than one that lasts something like 6 days. It is easy enough to remember to charge at night. Yes, one can’t use sleep features, but I am ok with that.
When you are in apple ecosystem, unlock phone with watch, unlock Mac with watch, accept Okta verify (2FA) on watch without an unlock, etc are life changing things for me.
What sucks is that I can’t gift it an Android/PC person without replacing thousands worth of everything else.
I have a Garmin watch and I just charge it while I'm taking a shower. Easy to remember, and I've had it for a few years and it's never run out of battery.
I don't understand why I need to wear my watch 24 hours a day. I wake up, put it on and wear it until I go to bed. While it is charging it is my nightstand clock.
Other than the nightstand clock thing, this is how I wear my "real" watches too.
I have a different sleep tracker and me and my partner use a wake light, so I don't find these things relevant to my use case. A quick poll of my friends is similar, although one uses the sleep tracker and charges while getting ready in the morning.
The Garmin watches have Pulse Oximeters in them that tell your your 02 saturation while you sleep, breaths per minutes, and use that data to calculate all sorts of metrics for you.
Yes, but the Apple Watch will compile the Linux kernel twice as fast as those other watches.
Seriously though, my Apple Watch is definitely the one device that runs out of battery the most in my life. I would love more battery life, so long as it doesn’t compromise any of the functionality or design. But there’s the rub.
I've recently been wondering if it would be technically feasible to make one of those more traditional metal watchbands, where the metal elements would be Li-Batteries. Perhaps too small though.
I think the tricky part would be the linkages where you'd need an electrical connection. Making that robust enough to be in the band but not too bulky would be a serious challenge. You'd also lose the big variety of bands and the sweet profit margins that they bring.
I don't know if there's been a regression since the series4, but my Apple watch easily lasts 30-36h (maybe I'm just too sedentary these days with WFH + occasional ride).
Even on busy weekends where I'm out all day with multiple "workouts" it usually lasts the day fine.
Actually one of the best features of the apple watch is that it can wake me silently (so as not to wake my spouse) and I can adjust my alarm schedule on my phone (without digging through tiny menus, which are even worse on a Garmin).
So I have developed a habit of taking off my apple watch when I sit at my desk. By the first time I think to look at my wrist, it's charged.
I put it in sleep mode all night, and wake up with plenty of battery anyway.
Fortunately it doesn't take 6 hours to charge! I'm still not sure where the 18 hour number comes from, I use mine for close to 24 reliably. About 1 hour charging every morning while I'm at my desk not doing much physically anyways is all it takes. Before the WFH times I'd charge it in the morning after it woke me up and maybe in the evening if the charge was below 30% so I'd be certain it would get through the night.
In that case you could probably get away with just charging it for a bit in the evening and a top up in the morning while you get ready and be able to wear it basically all day. It's supposedly 90 minutes to 80% from zero and that should get you to the evening where it'd be good to unplug and unwind for a little bit anyways.
Especially when I'm traveling (normally), an additional thing to charge is just more overhead. I have an older Apple Watch and I just don't use it very much. When I do, it's for hikes and, barring major upgrades, I probably won't upgrade and may get a new Garmin at some point.
The 18 hour battery life is the price you pay for at least 5x the functionality of competitors with better battery life (somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but you do realize the reason other wearables can get away with much longer battery lives is that they are capable of far less).
The other thing I didn't mention in my original post is Garmin watches are _meant_ to be used disconnected from the phone and internet, whereas the designers of the iWatch and Android watches assume you universally have a cell signal.
Retaining nearly all of your capabilities is a huge selling point for me since I spent an enormous amount of time away from cell towers and wifi in the outdoors.
This is strange to me: We’re likely less than two weeks out from this device being announced alongside the new iPhones. How can “small-scale” production only be beginning now?
I think the reporting is confusing issues with 2022’s Apple Watch & the upcoming 2021 edition.
When they announce that a Mac will be released in a month, that's because it's already in volume production and they know there are no manufacturing problems. If the manufacturing is still being worked on and they can't know when it will be ready then it isn't safe to announce the product.
> and they know there are no manufacturing problems
There are always manufacturing problems, and new, even significant ones, are discovered all the time.
They might delay the announcement, but at some point the cost of further delays will grow beyond their projections of what shipping a first batch of faulty products will cost them in repairs/replacements/legal fees.
I wouldn't be so sure, the device is being announced in two weeks but it is unlikely that we will be able to buy it straight away.
We might find that the release date for purchase is some time away.
Edit: Actually the article refers to blood glucose monitoring, which points so it being the 2022 model. However, the article does say there is a complete resign, which is also rumoured for this year model. Who know.
There's no way Apple would design any device which would, I quote, "insert a thin, sterile filament into the skin" to draw interstitial fluid. The Abbott sensor is designed to be worn for weeks on end.
They could miniaturize a specialized spectrometer of some sort I suppose. I don't know. If I knew, I'd be doing it now - that's quite literally tens of billions of dollars that people would throw at you faster than you'd be able to catch it.
'January 2017 at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, the company unveiled the Changhong H2 with NIR spectrometer', not sure if this was ever released, but suggests miniature spectrometry is a thing...
"Rockley Photonics says that its system uses infrared spectrophotometers to detect and monitor a wider range of health issue than the green LED systems in most wrist devices."
I also remember paging through this fascinating investor presentation document from Rockley:
Looking at Rockley stuff in particular makes me hopeful this could be solved, if it's solvable with spectrophotometry at all. I'd even be OK with something larger, perhaps ankle-worn, as long as I don't have to puncture my skin at all.
Even with a month’s lag products would already be in mass production, it regularly takes over a month just to ship goods from China to the US & Europe. Lead time on a new production line can easily run from six months to over a year depending on complexity.
If they’re still having problems with the production lines they’re not going to be shipping to customers in a little over a month, short of using air freight to get goods across, and that would make a substantial dent in profit margins at scale.
Most iPhones and Apple Watches I’ve ever purchased on launch day ship via air from China to a FedEx hub somewhere in CONUS, then on to me. Takes about 3 days…
Working remote from Cupertino or remote from China? Travel/Quarantine restrictions in China might actually be a bigger factor. Who can forget the infamous Tim Cook anecdote [1] about Apple resolving problems in Asia:
> One day back then, he convened a meeting with his team, and the discussion turned to a particular problem in Asia. "This is really bad," Cook told the group. "Someone should be in China driving this." Thirty minutes into that meeting Cook looked at Sabih Khan, a key operations executive, and abruptly asked, without a trace of emotion, "Why are you still here?" Khan, who remains one of Cook's top lieutenants to this day, immediately stood up, drove to San Francisco International Airport, and, without a change of clothes, booked a flight to China with no return date, according to people familiar with the episode.
I find this to be encouraging. I like that Apple is continuing to push the envelope and that means engineers should be wrestling with difficult problems. Delays happen, but better than releasing a dud like that terrible keyboard design a few years ago.
Not op but “designed” isn’t binary. If a design starts out in CA but is half-baked when it gets tossed over to China and so requires Chinese engineers to make changes to make it real… who really designed it?
Having worked at Apple for a number of years that’s not how it works. It’s much more like an architect/builder relationship where Apple is supplying detailed construction and interior design plans as well as overseeing the overall execution.
Bit delayed, but I wasn’t trying to imply that’s what happens at Apple. I know a lot of mechanical engineers there and I understand the approach they take is as you say.
My point was more in general. Should’ve clarified that.
Your point send valid, but architect/builder is usually the bouncing back and forth type relationship though, plans are usually half baked and the surveys aren't right so stuff has to change. And builders are the ones on site every day overseeing, usually the architects just check in.
I just don't see any appeal in a smart watch, I already have my phone pinging me all the time wanting my attention why would I want a second source of that as a wearable. The only thing I can think of is health monitoring / fitness and I would rather have a Garmin there where the sensors are far better.
That's what I thought when it came out initially, but after the series 4 release, I decided to get one, and I use it many many times a day:
* Apple Pay on the watch is the fastest way to pay on any NFC enabled POS; now works on Caltrain as well.
* Silent haptic alarm, which doesn't wake up your partner
* Passwordless macbook unlock
* Automatic phone unlock when using a facemask
* Overnight HR measurement, if you want to track how overtrained/rested you are
* I use it to open my front door and garage door via siri when coming back from a bike ride or run (I don't need to carry my phone for this). I don't carry keys with me.
* Listen to music/podcast while on a run without my phone.
* Control media without taking out my phone.
* Vectorized maps and gps tracking for running/cycling and uploading to strava (workoutdoors app)
* Strava app
* Interval timers when at the gym
* Easy continuous visibility of air-quality/UV/temp-range/hours-of-sunlight-remaining on my main watch face. Useful information when planning outdoor exercise.
* I occasionally do high altitude climbs, and hikes, so I'm looking forward to upgrading to a newer model with continuous elevation readouts and SpO2 readings.
* Use it to ping my lost phone
* Flashlight when you're in a bind
* Navigation while cycling
* Pick up calls when you're hands are full and you're phone isn't nearby.
That’s a bit tongue in cheek. Then again, I didn’t wear watches before; time alone didn’t seem a good enough reason. But that, combined with other benefits, works for me.
In the first months after starting to wear a watch (smart Apple or any other kind, really), I kept forgetting that it also tells the time. The habit of looking up the time on the phone was so deeply ingrained, if I tried to find out the time while in a bit of autopilot mode, I'd always reach for the phone, instead of looking at the wrist.
> I occasionally do high altitude climbs, and hikes, so I'm looking forward to upgrading to a newer model with continuous elevation readouts and SpO2 readings.
I also use it for this reason, but I've found that these activities can often be much longer than my the battery can last on my S6 in airplane mode with an activity running (~6 hours).
For this reason I'm considering a watch with better battery life built for this purpose such as Garmin or Coros. The recently announced Coros Vertix 2 has a mind-blowing 140 hours battery life with full GPS tracking [1].
I don't foresee Apple reaching this level of battery performance anytime soon, specifically because of the other reasons you list why the Apple Watch is useful. I wonder if we'll see a trend of people owning multiple wearables for specific reasons, with the Apple Watch being a daily driver.
It’s not a second source, it becomes the only source as it turns off your phone notifications. It also leads in shorter distractions as you can quickly check if a message is important without pulling out and unlocking your phone.
It also does a billion “nice to have” things like card payments which work with your mask on, walking directions with convenient and easy to read arrows, and so much more.
It’s certainly not essential but I have worn mine every single day as it certainly provides value.
When properly integrated with your phone, the smart watch is not a "second source" of notifications, it's the "primary source", and, being on your wrist, it's easier to check/dismiss those notifications.
I've been watching videos of the watch recently because I'm considering getting one, seems the overall improvement besides its use for fitness it's not needing to reach out for your phone as often as you'd do without the watch to check notifications etc. which could lead to distractions (e.g. I might as well check Instagram now since I unlocked the phone already).
So it helps reducing the use of the phone which also gives you more battery for it, the worse thing of the watch though is battery life which I hope the 2021 model improves upon.
> it's not needing to reach out for your phone as often as you'd do without the watch to check notifications etc
I bought my first AW for the fitness aspects, but the above has become just as important. I'm not in a position where I can turn off all notifications, but I can glance at my AW mid conversation when I get a notification w/o missing a beat. If it's something I need to handle, I can excuse myself. Otherwise, it is way less of an interruption.
Same here. I got a Garmin watch several months ago, and so many people have asked "why didn't you just get an apple watch?" Then I have to give them my whole spiel about hating the constant distractions and oh by the way, have you ever tried turning off notifications on your phone...
> Then I have to give them my whole spiel about hating the constant distractions and oh by the way, have you ever tried turning off notifications on your phone
oh by the way, have you ever tried turning off notifications on your watch? It's as easy as on your phone.
Have had an Apple Watch since 2015. Took me about 30 seconds to permanently disable all unwanted sounds and notifications then, when I first got one. It's been six years now. They're all still disabled.
For example, the story mentions the addition of blood pressure sensors as a reason for the issues:
> The next Apple Watch will come with new features such as blood pressure measurement, they said, which means production involves fitting a greater number of components into a similar size body.
Mark Gurman of Bloomberg says there is "no chance" [0] that the Apple Watch 7 will have blood pressure sensors. He points to his story with Debby Wu [1] instead:
> The new watches also have screen technology that brings that display closer to the cover glass using a different lamination technique, Bloomberg previously reported. That display layer may be causing some of the production woes, the person said.
It's probably a combination of larger watch sizes, new techniques/technologies, the usual upgrades, COUPLED with covid-related disruptions that are causing the delays!
---------------------------
0: https://twitter.com/markgurman/status/1432798940676730886
1: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-31/apple-s-n...