Everything's negotiable, and IP is definitely something you should negotiate, but often there's a process for this that legal has approved and changing it is a dealbreaker.
A typical process is that you "disclaim" up front all the IP you take into the company, and they own everything after that.
A typical exception to that process that might be accepted is that they own everything related to their business that you come up with after you join the company.
An exception that can be pretty hard to get is that you own everything you come up with off-hours. This is reasonable, (though obviously you can disagree and turn the job down): if the company is providing you access to knowledge and domain exposure, you shouldn't be exploiting it to start your own business on the side. Also, it can be hard for them to pinpoint exactly when you came up with something, which creates legal headaches down the road.
if the company is providing you access to knowledge and
domain exposure, you shouldn't be exploiting it to start
your own business on the side
Actually, why not? Is it so bad that employee will benefit in ways more diverse than getting the paycheck?
This is the line of reasoning that breeds contempt down the road - company says "you can't have your own ideas", employee says "Fine, then I'm working here 9-to-5". Everybody loses.
It might be if you are creating a breeding ground for competitors. There's nothing immoral about asking to own all your personal time IP, but I can see both sides to the argument.
So you MIGHT be breeding competitors, therefore you have to ask for any and all IP? A bit over-reaching it seems. There is really no need for it in most cases, the only reason they always ask for it is because nobody ever questions the practice.
You can call it overreaching; I don't mind. But you just disqualified yourself from a big chunk of otherwise interesting jobs. It's not like I'm making up the fact that software startups have non-negotiable IP clauses.
You want a really fun non-negotiable clause? Come up with something "patentable", then quit. You can be forced to work on the patent application, a year later, at a rate set by your ex-employer. Happened to me.
Well, so yo should have kept it to yourself to preserve your own best interest. That's exactly the problem with that situation, it stimulates you to work 9-5 and keep quiet about everything and anything. I think that situation is broken.
And it's strange how you, an apparent victim of the system, come to its defense. Doesn't compute.
A typical process is that you "disclaim" up front all the IP you take into the company, and they own everything after that.
A typical exception to that process that might be accepted is that they own everything related to their business that you come up with after you join the company.
An exception that can be pretty hard to get is that you own everything you come up with off-hours. This is reasonable, (though obviously you can disagree and turn the job down): if the company is providing you access to knowledge and domain exposure, you shouldn't be exploiting it to start your own business on the side. Also, it can be hard for them to pinpoint exactly when you came up with something, which creates legal headaches down the road.