Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login
A $100k Prize for a Decentralized Inflation Dashboard (1729.com)
102 points by exolymph on Aug 5, 2021 | hide | past | favorite | 116 comments



Real inflation is very hard to measure, because it's not only prices that change - more often the product loses quality while price stays the same. Either way, you are getting less for what you pay for, but only the price change is measured as inflation. In addition, people switch over to cheaper alternatives when products get more expensive - meat is replaced with vegetables for example. This changes the average basket of goods, and again doesn't affect inflation. There are also government programs and subsidies which are designed to alter the basket of goods or the prices of those goods.

Taking everything into account it seems that real inflation is higher than reported, and it might not be possible to measure it correctly by just tracking prices.


Many things have also gained in quality substantially, such as vehicles, electronics, and durable goods. A new car not only lasts longer and requires less maintenance, is more fuel efficient, safer, but is often loaded with amenities like navigation, entertainment, self-driving. How do you make an equivalency to something from the 90s?

Meanwhile digital content and communication services have become free and ubiquitous. Free goods don't get priced at all. This means some categories may have lower than headline inflation. Can you imagine what a pre-internet era company would have been able to charge for an Amazon Echo style device that played any song you asked it to, controlled your home and estimated your drive time? Amazon practically gives them away for free. You don't even have to pay for Prime.

Moreover, the healthcare plan that many people's employers buy on their behalf has accounted for a growing portion of overall compensation. Healthcare in US is so distorted that it barely has a measurable signal for price/service, and yet in the US it consumes 1/6 of GDP. Since many people's employers pay for this, it doesn't factor into the consumer price index.

College tuition? It's up 2-5X in the past 20 years. Fine, we can measure the cost of tuition increases, but does it take into account the interest payments on the student loan debt that, for some, exceed the original loan by a factor of 5-10X? (I don't actually know).

This is just to agree that measuring inflation is really tricky, especially in an age of accelerating technological advancement and institutional failure.


Cars are really the best example but hard to tell because the change over time is so not so sudden.

My first car was 1988 Pontiac Sunbird from my parents. Inflation adjusted price is 26,000 in 2021 dollars.

I had one of the cooler cars in high school. If you look up a picture of it now, it is such a piece of shit I literally would not get in one.

Everyone complains about education cost but I take whatever classes I want online for free from some of the best Universities to have ever existed.

There is always someone that says this obviously ludicrously over simplistic statement that inflation is money printing and then cherry picks data that backs that up. Even though it is just as easy to cherry pick data that shows that point is stupid.

We can't measure "inflation" in the general sense because we have no definition of what that even really means.


> College tuition? It's up 2-5X in the past 20 years.

This isn't going to be a popular take, and I have no love lost for Academia (see my post history). But...

College tuition has the same effect as vehicles: they've gotten more expensive over time, but the quality of the product has massively improved from a consumer's perspective.

1. Education: students have way more support now than they did 20 years ago, or especially 40 years ago. It's quite hard to over-state how much more support students are given today. This is especially true at places with higher tuition, such as LACs or elite universities. It's REALLY HARD to not make it through a four year degree these days, and failure modes typically involve some sort of violent crime or substance abuse disorder. And that's true even for canonically hard fields. With a small handful of exceptions, "weeder courses" don't really exist anymore. And even where they do, there's considerable hand-holding.

2. Housing: dorms these days are still way over-priced relative to what you can get in the private market, but quite nice compared to what was available 30+ years ago.

3. Amenities. This is probably the largest. Students have access to world-class gym facilities -- the type that you can't even buy outside of large cities. Rock walls, huge pools, full weight lifting gyms, yoga studios, squash courts, tennis courts, cheap/free fitness classes, etc. all within a 5 minute walk of your bed.

A lot of the increase in the price of college is attributable to the product becoming much "better" -- it's never been easier to get a degree and dorm list has never been more comfortable.


The music point is very true. Used to be that a CD had 10 songs on it and sold for between ten and twenty dollars. Now for $10 a month for Spotify or YouTube music you can stream literally thousands of songs a month.

Another one is mobile phone service. Does any remember pay-per-text plans? My phone bill has been more or less than same for a decade, but I now have unlimited call, text, and data.


> How do you make an equivalency to something from the 90s?

Many of the bells and whistles on cars should decrease its value as compared to a 90s car because it drastically increases repair costs.


Loss of quality is totally missed in the CPI. Take this example. A restaurant hires rookie waiters because they can’t pay the more experienced staff. Your meal still costs $50. But is it worth this same? Not at all.


Where I live it's been about a decade since waiters were anything except glorified conveyer belts that serve no purpose except to move my food from the kitchen to my table, and if anything that has drastically increased the quality of my meals. I'm not really sure what value an experienced waiter would provide.


I recommend you try some well-rated restaurants where the waiter explains the food carefully, tells you where it’s sourced and with which wine to pair it all. Maybe that’s not your thing but I’ve been to many restaurants lately where the staff doesn’t even know the menu.


> where the waiter explains the food carefully, tells you where it’s sourced and with which wine to pair it all.

These are all functions that can be served equally well by an inanimate object. Why pay someone $25/hr every night to say where a dish was sourced when you can just add a couple of lines to the description of that item on your website? I'd definitely have a much better experience if that money was spent on better ingredients, or just not spent and reducing the cost of my meal.

> Maybe that’s not your thing

There's no maybe about it, but I don't think it affects my point.


I prefer restaurants where I pick up the food at the counter and bus my own dishes. Saves me time and hopefully some of the money saved by not having waiters goes towards reducing prices, better quality ingredients, and better paid cooks.


You measure it with things that are identical.

Futures markets are a good example, steel, lumber, cattle, etc...


As someone that raises grass-fed beef, I can tell you with certainty that not all cattle are identical. Commodity prices give you commodity quality.


even lumber isnt identical. old lumber was made from older trees that were generally more dense and a harder wood.

http://www.historicdoors.co.uk/blog/old-growth-wood-better-n...


yup, a great starting point would be commodity based. Even then those can be controlled, ie. public transport cost can be subsidized to keep that price point low for consumers, but subsidy is indirectly reflected by increased taxes...


yes I've seen a lot of groceries item stay the same price but in smaller packaging


NPR recently covered [0] this phenomena which is also know as 'shrinkflation'

[0] https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2021/07/06/1012409112/bew...


> Investor after conducting further due diligence is not obligated by these Official Rules to make an investment in the Winner of any dollar amount.

No thanks


> Inflation is a monetary phenomenon, a function of money printing

Is it, though? Are hotels and used cars more expensive this year because of money printing?


It only is when the money printed is mailed directly to the public.

A decade ago the money printed was to restore bank cash reserves. The inflation had already happened (housing bubble) due to poor lending practices which caused the global financial crisis.


this is a reference to a famous Milton Friedman quote "inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon" — of course this is a tautology, but he didn't mean the trivial version when he said it, but rather he was making an empirical claim.

in this piece it looks like the author is making the tautological version of the claim, by following up and describing it as "a function of money printing" — which is obviously true it is a function of money printing and several other things


To be clear, inflation is not a function of money printing. For example, under metallic standards (so no money printing), countries would experience inflation or deflation as a result of trade imbalances (because a trade deficit leads to a net outflow of precious metals, and vice-versa).


metallic standards often had debasement (that's why it's called debasement). but also no one is arguing that inflation is a function of ONLY money printing, but no one can argue that money printing is not one of the inputs that determines inflation


Indeed! If somebody was able to print a trillion dollars and stash it away in their bank account, I don't see why any observable inflation would occur.


Inflation is actually money supply times velocity of money. In your example the velocity would be zero, so no inflation.


inflation is a function of peoples willingness to use todays cash for tomorrows utility.

this money machine goes brrrr reality is a poor mans understanding of central bank financing and is mostly a paranoia fueling cryptocurrency speculation.

there is a need for more transparency in inflation numbers, but really, you have to be paranoid of governments numbers to think they arnt sufficiently independent.


"Inflation is a monetary phenomenon" is a quote from economist Milton Friedman but most economists disagree.


$100k seems laughably low, when you consider that it buys less than 4 months of dev time (assuming a $200/hr consulting rate).


It does seem low compared to the rise in developer salaries of late. I guess that's why they need help tracking inflation.


Just hired some devs for $12/hr. Quality will probably be about par for the course


Technically it says "We'll invest $100k in the best entrant if you end up starting a company". I guess not bad if you're already working on this?


>if you end up starting a company

How can you monetize this? The whole point is that the data is public for everyone to see?


I mean, these are crypto-crazed people with their alternate reality. Make a company, add the word "blockchain" in your mission statement, and join in the bandwagon/Golgafrinchan Ark Fleet Ship B?


The crypto version of this is an inflation oracle


Lots of people/businesses have a need to know if they’ll be able to meet their future expenditures with current savings. The issue is the generic basket of goods isn’t relevant for all people. For example, a condo with a reserve fund only really cares about construction costs in a single city. A retiree cares a lot about the price of nursing homes and in home care but may not even realize it.

I expect if you can help people/financial advisors understand their future expenditure needs there is a lot of value in it.


>The issue is the generic basket of goods isn’t relevant for all people.

but the BLS puts out figures for each category? https://www.bls.gov/news.release/cpi.t02.htm


Yes, I agree it’s not as useful if you trust government sources.

I’m not that familiar with USA inflation but with Canadian inflation statistics, certain categories feel way off - such as housing. As someone who is considering buying a house their measure is useless.

BLS numbers are also controversial - https://www.investopedia.com/articles/07/consumerpriceindex....


>certain categories feel way off - such as housing. As someone who is considering buying a house their measure is useless.

Because it's based off "owners equivalent rent", not the sticker price of a house. The latter is somewhat problematic because a house is an investment, not an expenditure (unlike an apple or a doctor visit).


> Its purpose is to determine changes in the cost of using a stock of dwellings.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/62f0014m/62f0014m2017001...

This is difficult for me to understand as there is no market price for what they are trying to estimate. They have a thousand knobs to guess at. It reads a bit like they are grouping people who’ve own their home for 50 years in with those who just bought - similar to how they calculate rent.

For example, they weight mortgage interest at less than utilities. For a new homeowner, mortgage interest is probably 5-10x utilities.

Regardless, they explicitly ignore the experience of a first time home buyer, who are pretty trapped into renting. A house is not just an investment, it’s a different experience owning versus renting.


>It reads a bit like they are grouping people who’ve own their home for 50 years in with those who just bought - similar to how they calculate rent.

>[...] For a new homeowner, mortgage interest is probably 5-10x utilities.

Sounds like you're upset that the index is an average of everyone, and therefore doesn't recognize your individual struggles?

>A house is not just an investment, it’s a different experience owning versus renting.

Eating food grown yourself is a different experience than shopping at the supermarket. Should we factor farm land cost into the CPI?


When measuring the price index of natural gas should you average in contracts written 50 years ago but still active, regardless of whether that price is currently available on the market?

> Eating food grown yourself is a different experience than shopping at the supermarket. Should we factor farm land cost into the CPI?

If 70% of the population paid for a "gardening experience" like they do for gym memberships, etc then yeah I would expect that to be in CPI.


I think, you're missing the point. Houses are consumed over very long periods of time, which means the price at which you're purchasing your home today is going to affect your future cost of living for many, many years. Therefore, if we are trying to measure the current cost of living, current house prices are pretty much irrelevant.


How I interpret their methodology is they are trying to estimate the change in costs for existing owners. Is that correct?

What I feel is that mortgage payments have doubled in 10 years for new buyers. However, because new buyers are a small fraction of existing buyers this doesn't rapidly affect inflation as they calculate it.

Thanks for trying to explain it, I feel pretty dumb as I'm clearly missing something obvious.


Conceptually, it's useful to think of a house as an investment good that produces housing services (shelter, living space, etc.). These housing services are what you get when you rent a house. If you're a home owner, you don't pay rent explicitly, but it really is as if you had rented out your house to yourself and you were paying rent to yourself. Therefore the cost of housing services is best estimated through rent prices.

The other thing is the cost of the house itself, not the housing services. This includes the purchasing cost and the cost of repairs that you make periodically. The repairs are not a problem but the purchasing cost would need to be spread over the useful life of the house. If the house is bought on credit then the buyer will also incur funding costs (i.e. in the form of interest payments), but these can't be considered costs that are related to housing. They are separate. It's like if you buy a car on credit you'll pay more than if you paid for it with your savings, but that doesn't mean the car is more expensive.

CPI includes housing services and repairs. As far as I know, it doesn't include houses, probably because they're considered an investment good, while CPI is concerned with consumer goods. At any rate, mortgage payments are not a good estimate of how much houses cost. The reasons are interest, which is a different cost, and the fact that principal payments are arbitrary as they vary depending on things like mortgage length, and so on.

Anyway, I understand that many people feel strongly about CPI and inflation measurements, but while cost accounting is not rocket science it's not completely straightforward either, and most of the time criticism of CPI by layman people turns out to be misguided.


Thanks for your time. Renting looks like simpler to estimate, but it confuses me as well.

> Every month, the rental prices paid by the households in the sample are compared with the rental prices they paid the previous month

When rent control caps rent increases this becomes a lagging indicator. Why don't they try to estimate market rent?

This feels similar to my problem with the owner cost estimate. Consider a hypothetical about cars - in a world where everyone buys new cars with 8 years of financing, suddenly there is a car shortage (chips or whatever). The price of a new car doubles. As very few owners need to buy a new car every year, on average their costs are about the same as last year despite a 100% increase in the cost of a new car.


>certain categories feel way off

If you live in Vancouver, it's easy to forget 93% of the country doesn't.

From 1995 to just pre-pandemic, my home (in the US, far away from California) appreciated significantly less than inflation.


I was looking at a city specific inflation measure.


I believe the standard inflation measures in the US are based on people living in cities, as I do.


Sorry, what I meant was I was looking at the data for my specific city. For some indicies statistics Canada has a breakdown to specific cities.


People can pay you to explain it. People can pay you to extend it. People can pay you to do something different because you showed how smart you are.


Just to throw a few ideas in the room:

* offer integrations into various relevant systems

* ability to build custom baskets and/or change the weighting of different categories


>* offer integrations into various relevant systems

What's your moat here? What's preventing a competitor from using the blockchain data you published to make their own product?

>* ability to build custom baskets and/or change the weighting of different categories

Considering that the data is public, that seems easy to do. See also: above comment about moats.


If it has a good enough UI, people will pay, just like anything else. Not everybody wants to build their own scripts around the data, even if its free.

Obviously this is not a billion dollar idea, but it sure could bring in some $ to pay for a full-time developer or two and still make a little profit.


> If it has a good enough UI, people will pay, just like anything else. Not everybody wants to build their own scripts around the data, even if its free.

Then a big corp comes up with their own offering and steamrolls you with their lower prices, integration with their existing products, and better engineering/sales staff. See for instance, mongodb and elasticsearch.


Or it buys a whole team outside of USA/Europe.


This is not aimed at devs in the West:

> That’s why we named 1729.com after Ramanujan’s number. Ramanujan made great contributions to India and to mathematics around the world. He was particularly renowned for his contribution to number theory, which underpins cryptography and hence crypto. And he represented something I’ve been thinking about for many years, which is how to use technology to help the dark talent in India and around the world rise as Ramanujan did. Thus the fourth task is to help identify those people and places where the best is outside the West, where the ascending world is surpassing the declining world.

$100k for a dev in India, Ukraine, or Venezuela, is more than enough incentive.


What I'd really like to see is a multi-dimensional inflation vector that would also be future-proof.

People really need diverse items: they need food, but also real estate, the prices of which are going through the roof currently, and that's a form of inflation. Also, there are many profiles of consumption. People have different needs.

I'd say that it could be a 100 floating point vector; with the first 40 values arranged by increasing importance on Maslow's pyramid of human needs; 20 for consumption pattern diversity; and 40 for future consumption needs, initially set to 0, to be added at the rate of 1 every 5 years.


I'll start off with saying: Good luck to anyone trying to create a truly comprehensive historical price database.

Take these examples:

- The housing market is extremely diverse in certain countries, where some cities have experience price increases the past decades, some have been stagnating, and some have seen price decreases.

- Same goes for salaries. In extremely centralized cities, there's likely been above inflation rise, while in extremely decentralized cities, salaries have been stagnating, sometimes just standing still.

- Fuel prices can depend on local policies and taxation laws.

- Foods etc. can depend on how far away the places are in the logistical chain, how many competitors there are in the area, how the stores and chains are organized, etc.

- Travel (airfare, trains, etc.) can depend on location. Some larger hubs have experienced airfare that's become cheaper and cheaper with years, while rural places have seen the same going up.

Just in my country (Norway), there are hundreds of towns and villages with prices that are all over the place, and you'd need to scrape thousands of websites. Some of the data would be more or less impossible to get, due to the data never being digitized to begin with.

Of course, I would love to have such a database ready. I'd love to be able to run a query on my home town, and see what the prices for top 10 items were, say, 45 years ago. And compare that to the national inflation, as well as local prices of the more expensive cities.

So I think that whomever is going to work on this, probably just need to take the very rough and general (historical) inflation rates, which most government websites offer. To make a DB which accounts for all the micro- and macro changes would just be too consuming for any small team. You'd basically need a Wikipedia-esque team of individual contributors to cover all the prices.


>Also, there are many profiles of consumption. People have different needs.

How do you get people to agree on which profile? I have a feeling it'll end up like the various unemployment statistics U-1 through U-6, ie. "you're a fool if you believe unemployment is at x% (U-3), the real unemployment rate is y% (your choice of U1/2/4/5/6, depending on the picture you want to paint)"


I don't think they necessarily need to agree. "How expensive is stuff getting these days?" is a broad, multidimensional question, and I think looking for a single numerical answer tends to confuse people more than it clarifies. (Even today, we have "core CPI" and "median CPI" and "chained urban CPI" and so on.)


it can only be future proof when tech stops improving :)


OK, blockchain fans, I’m genuinely confused as usual… Can someone explain what the point is of collecting price data and then putting it on the chain with a smart contract to do calculations on it? If “censorship” is a problem, why not just broadcast/mirror the signed data? If the calculation is untrusted, why not just publish the source code and let people run it on the published data? What is the blockchain accomplishing here?


Probably so it can tie in with some smart contract that's based off the CPI (eg. Treasury Inflation-Protected Securities). As for why that's useful, I'm not sure. At the end you'll still need a trusted oracle for the scraped prices.


It would be very useful for on-chain financial derivatives based off a more accurate inflation gauge. I don't trust the official CPI numbers and don't see them as accurately reflecting my cost of living increases over the years. Couple in the fact that there are literally trillions in pension benefits tied to CPI, so the incentive to manipulate these numbers is huge. It's already very opaque. If you look at the constituents [0], housing, education and health care make up around 60%, so it makes no sense that inflation has been flat for the last ten years.

The prices would ideally come from a large number of sources and some averaging would take place.

[0] https://www.advisorperspectives.com/dshort/updates/2021/07/1...


>I don't trust the official CPI numbers and don't see them as accurately reflecting my cost of living increases over the years.

What makes you think a NGO would do a better job? On one hand they might not have the same incentive to manipulate the numbers in the same way that the government would, but that would be replaced with an incentive to come up with whatever numbers that their donor base would like to see (see also: media companies adjusting their coverage to retain subscribers).

>If you look at the constituents [0], housing, education and health care make up around 60%, so it makes no sense that inflation has been flat for the last ten years.

Are you missing a part of your argument here? You just say that a few categories make up 60% of the CPI, then immediately conclude that "it makes no sense that inflation has been flat".

>The prices would ideally come from a large number of sources and some averaging would take place.

The problem is that you need to do various subjective adjustments (eg. the controversial "hedonistic adjustments") for the numbers to make sense.


> What makes you think a NGO would do a better job?

Maybe they wouldn't do better, but they wouldn't have a trillion dollar incentive and ideally there'd be competing metrics.

> Are you missing a part of your argument here? You just say that a few categories make up 60% of the CPI, then immediately conclude that "it makes no sense that inflation has been flat".

In the US, over the last 10 years housing, education and health care have grown by a lot while official inflation has been historically very flat (0 - 2%).

Health care: On a per capita basis, health spending has increased over 31-fold in the last four decades, from $353 per person in 1970 to $11,582 in 2019. [0]

Housing: Median home price was around ~210k in today's dollars ten years ago and is now ~314k [1]

Education: The cost of college increased by more than 25% in the last 10 years [2]

> The problem is that you need to do various subjective adjustments

Sure, but again, I don't trust the officials to do this given the trillion dollar incentive to fudge the numbers.

[0] https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-spe....

[1] https://dqydj.com/historical-home-prices/

[2] https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/13/cost-of-college-increased-by...


>Maybe they wouldn't do better, but they wouldn't have a trillion dollar incentive and ideally there'd be competing metrics.

The fact that no private entities tried to do anything similar (eg. bloomberg, s&p, msci) despite the massive incentive to do so (it's hard to price bonds/mortgages/loans if you can't trust the inflation numbers), suggests that the current number is already pretty good and/or that coming up with comparable numbers would be massively expensive. I think the problem is of expectations. You want a competitor to the BBC. You hope that it'll be something like propublica, but given the crowd associated with crypto, you'll probably end up with something like zerohedge.

>Health care: On a per capita basis, health spending has increased over 31-fold in the last four decades, from $353 per person in 1970 to $11,582 in 2019. [0]

That seems pretty consistent with the figures from CPI: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CUSR0000SAM2

From 1999 to 2019, the source you gave (Total national health expenditures, US $ per capita) 154% increase. The "Medical Care Services" component of the CPI grew by 112% in the same time period. The figure you gave also doesn't account for an aging population (older people spend more on healthcare, irrespective of cost), so the "true" difference is probably smaller.

>Housing: Median home price was around ~210k in today's dollars ten years ago and is now ~314k [1]

Because looking at home prices is a poor way of assessing housing cost increases. If you factor in falling interest rates, the cost of a house has actually gone down. Houses have also gotten bigger and better equipped in the last few decades, which might increase the overall sticker price, but arguably shouldn't contribute to CPI increase.

see: https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2021/03/what-if-housing-pri...

>Education: The cost of college increased by more than 25% in the last 10 years [2]

The "Tuition, Other School Fees, and Childcare" component of the CPI has increased 37.4% in the same time period.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CUSR0000SEEB


The reason there's no concerted effort for Bloomberg, S&P, etc to create an alternative inflation index is because there's no point. It won't be able to be integrated into financial products. Finance is extremely regulated and apart from some bespoke CDS, getting acceptance of a main stream financial product with this weird index would be very difficult. With smart contracts there is no approval process and a very low cost to create such products. But who knows, maybe no one is interested, but it's still an important project

> That seems pretty consistent with the figures from CPI:

CPI 1970: 31.1 CPI 2021: 570.6 Increase: 570/31 = 18-fold compared to 31-fold. Don't just say "looks similar" when you could do simple division and realize it's not similar. I don't think there is a single economist that would argue that health care spending has not grown considerably faster than the rate of inflation.

Here's the continuously compounded rate of growth of health expenditures as per the st louis fed

DATE HLTHSCEXPHCSA_CCH

1/1/01 8.61255

1/1/02 8.53011

1/1/03 6.8683

1/1/04 7.1269

1/1/05 6.22677

1/1/06 6.17762

1/1/07 6.12021

1/1/08 4.61058

1/1/09 4.60561

1/1/10 3.86769

1/1/11 3.5515

1/1/12 3.53598

1/1/13 2.54628

1/1/14 5.1474

1/1/15 6.26148

1/1/16 5.01743

1/1/17 3.98121

1/1/18 4.16224

You can do the same for housing [1]

[0] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/HLTHSCEXPHCSA#0

[1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MSPUS


>The reason there's no concerted effort for Bloomberg, S&P, etc to create an alternative inflation index is because there's no point. It won't be able to be integrated into financial products. Finance is extremely regulated and apart from some bespoke CDS, getting acceptance of a main stream financial product with this weird index would be very difficult.

1. you're thinking that the index would have to be integrated into the product itself (eg. this bond pays s&p inflation index + 2%) for it to be useful. This isn't the case. Even for forecasting or internal rate-setting purposes it would be massively useful.

2. If you check the website for s&p or msci, they got an endless list of indexes. Some of them are even integrated into financial products (eg. tracked by ETF or derivatives). Exotic indexes is definitely not a problem for them.

>I don't think there is a single economist that would argue that health care spending has not grown considerably faster than the rate of inflation.

I think the problem here is that you're conflating per-capita spending with price increase. As mentioned earlier an aging population would increase per-capita spending without necessarily increasing price. People opting to buy better, but more expensive care would also increase per-capita spending without necessarily increasing price.

>You can do the same for housing [1]

What's your contradictory source for the actual price of housing?


The CPI basically measures the median American's budget. So if wealth inequality is unchanging, then it's a decent measure of economy-wide inflation. Otherwise, it measures inflation x delta wealth inequality.


What if those budgets have significantly less buying power? Especially in critical areas like housing, healthcare, and education?


Then people will tend to buy less of them to fit their budget. Here is the most telling chart: inflation-adjusted wages in the US [0]. They never change, because the CPI uses a survey to determine what the average American is buying, and how much it costs, then they adjust weights based on how much they spend on it (which cancels out the cost because people change their buying preferences based on current prices) and leaves you with the median American's total expenditure. Yeah, that's really how they do it. And that's why CPI is a joke.

[0] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us...


Is it possible people are buying less by volume, even if amounts spent level off? For example smaller homes, less healthcare, getting less educational value per (adjusted) dollar spent?


Yes, that's exactly it. Such changes are not well reflected in the CPI model.


Including the computation and data on-chain enables other parties to use it trustlessly and verifiably. If you, for example, wanted to make an algorithmic central bank that reacted to inflation numbers you would need on-chain CPI in order to do that. Similarly you may want to index your interest rate to the CPI in some way (like LIBOR). It becomes a lot more useful when on-chain than in a central database


It’s not trustless, because you’re trusting the scraping NGO to put the correct price data on the chain. You can verify that it came from the NGO with a simple signature; you don’t need the chain for that.


nah fam that won't likely be the final topology of the network. you can have oracles all the way down and a slashing risk for those that deviate significantly from the consensus prices and CPI numbers. so you're trusting the economic design of the system to appropriately incentivize the participants to give honest data


I think you are right, this can be done without a blockchain.

Once done, it could be useful to make an oracle with it and put it on ethereum so it can be used by other smart contracts. But not the calculation itself nor the original data points


If all you have is a hammer…


These are people who think the government wants to censor their prices database... so not exactly geniuses.



What happened in Argentina 2007-2016 that would suggest censorship-resistance in a prices database is a feature that makes sense?


The government misreported inflation figures. (According to the people who made the price database)


Mining fees?


For about the same reason that you should use blockchain for inventory management.


I distrust any website who prevents me from using the back button to leave their site.

Browsers should prevent pushing to history if I haven’t clicked.


I think it's a bug with the way they've embedded the google form, it seems do something weird with the window controls here (firefox, macos)


Why would we have an inflation dashboard if the theory is that seeing the inflation causes it?

I don't get it, why cause inflation purposely?

That said, I'm all for this because it would be cool.


This is just an ad for Chainlink's oracle tech.


>If enough of the right people believe that inflation is going to happen, it will. As such, when inflation is happening, there is often a push to censor discussion of inflation itself, under the grounds that discussing the problem actually causes it in the first place.

The flip side to this notion is that if someone stands to profit from inflation, they're incentivized to promote discussion of inflation with the hope of increasing it. Would anyone in the blockchain space stand to profit from the US dollar's demise?


Yeah I'd have to set some actual evidence of censorship, rather then just asserting it. Unless by censorship they really mean people arguing against them. There seems to be a thing now in some circles where any disagreement is considered censorship.


Isn't this asking for a solution to the oracle problem? i.e., is there a working way to get any real world data on to the blockchain that isn't manual/censorable? I mean, once that's solved, there'll be a lot more interest in stock prices and sports scores and such than CPI data, right?



>Additionally, if the best dashboard uses Chainlink's crypto oracle technology to get the relevant data on-chain, they'll be eligible to receive an additional $100k grant in LINK tokens.

Ill pass on that shoehorned scope


A slight reword would get a better gut reaction from me.

  Additionally, Chainlink has offered an additional $100k grant in LINK tokens if the best dashboard uses their crypto oracle technology.


1. What is the point of the blockchain here?

2. This seems worth way more than 100k & they just want multiple teams working on it (competing), so they can then invest 100k in a company? This seems incredibly underfunded.


Does something already exist that allows person from country A to find out in which country B their home currency goes the furthest? Sort of a combination of bundle of goods and exchange rate? I've thought it something that could be plugged into a charity finder.


A USD-denominated cost of living database? Plenty of sites out there doing that.


this sounds like the typical scam where they already have someone in their circle working on exactly this, and they’re just announcing a competition to get media attention before they end up picking that team as the “natural” winners.


Inflation can be good. It causes the value of debts to decrease. However, sharp inflation in consumer prices without corresponding wage increases can precipitate a humanitarian crisis.


Inflation is neither good nor bad. It is merely a measure.

People mistake cause and effect in economics all the time. Inflation can be a good proxy for money velocity. But it can also just be a proxy for growth of money supply. In the former, it’s often a sign of economic activity/growth. In the latter, it’s often a sign of stagflation.

The US seems closer to stagflation at the moment. The Fed have an opportunity to nip this in the bud and deflate their balance sheet, but they won’t.


Since inflation can cause the value of debts to decrease, it's more expensive to borrow money.

All monetary distortion (including inflation) translates into economic distortion (suboptimal allocation and waste).


This endeavor is impossible. The prize should be 100M$. I think a better system would be simply to survey people and ask them to assess their perceived purchasing power.


not a bad idea, but the way to do it is probably to come up with a certain basket and then actually have people physically go into stores and record prices in those stores and then reward them with a crypto token for contributing ( kinda like the mystery shopper industry ).


>but the way to do it is probably to come up with a certain basket

I don't get it. Tell them what to buy? The official figures are based on a basket determined by surveying people. That is the point. It sounds like you are saying the problem with the government CPI is that it's not predetermined?

"The Quarterly Interview Survey is designed to collect data on large and recurring expenditures that consumers can be expected to recall for a period of 3 months or longer, such as rent and utilities, and the Diary Survey is designed to collect data on small, frequently purchased items, including most food and clothing. Together, the data from the two surveys cover the complete range of consumers’ expenditures."

See https://www.bls.gov/cex/


What's preventing people from making up the prices?


This becomes especially important if these oracles become used in smart contracts. As we learned from LIBOR, even the traditional finance industry can't resist the urge to nudge a benchmark in their preferred direction. At least in that case, the parties were not anonymous.


you can have them submit it by taking a photo of the price, or even by taking a photo of their receipt after they check out. you can run sanity checks to clean the data, for example, if someone says eggs cost 50 bucks, throw away their submission, etc.


>or even by taking a photo of their receipt after they check out.

Sounds like it'll be cheaper to buy the data off one of those receipt scanning apps. Better reach, and you don't need to make your own data acquisition/validation pipeline.


well, the beauty of paying with crypto token is you pay with the token you yourself minted out of nothing, so initially it costs nothing to use it to pay people and then if enough people make enough submissions to this dashboard and you design token to be useful in some kind of defi like thing, it will go to the moon for the same reason they all do.


Unrelated, but regarding the domain name for this site:

The nth taxicab number, also called the nth Hardy–Ramanujan number, is the smallest integer that can be expressed as a sum of two positive integer cubes in n distinct ways. The most famous taxicab number is 1729.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicab_number


camelcamelcamel would probably be helpful for this


This feels like a blockchain rube goldberg machine.


This was neat until it asked you to put the data on the blockchain. Might as well be asking to distribute the network packets over pigeons. What a totally orthogonal, shoehorned objective.


A CPI oracle on the blockchain would be nice to have (e.g. you could (try to) peg to CPI) but it does seem orthogonal from the data gathering and calculation part.


"How can we promote our crypto pyramid scheme?"




Consider applying for YC's Spring batch! Applications are open till Feb 11.

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: