Today the entire state of New York had ZERO covid related deaths. Yet this week we saw NYC and State employees and now major private corporations mandate the vaccine.
For the record I will never disclosure my health status so don’t assume one way or another.
The “wait 2 weeks” argument did not work for Florida when they took the lead, nor Texas when they had the first full capacity sporting event, and not India when they were on the “brink of collapse”.
Delta is confirmed to be more contagious and less deadly.
In a few weeks the numbers will be low regardless of what measures are taken. But the forced vaccination of federal, municipal, and private employees will be given credit.
I am not against the vaccine. I am however against governments determining what freedoms their citizens are allowed to have based on what medicines they chose to take.
We’ve all seen the disaster with our personal privacy across social media and the internet as a whole.
>I am not against the vaccine. I am however against governments determining what freedoms their citizens are allowed to have based on what medicines they chose to take.
This is a private company deciding that they don't want to employ you. There are no governments involved here.
>CA will have the strongest state vaccine verification system in the US and will require state employees & healthcare workers to provide proof of vaccination—or get tested regularly.
This is clearly different, as it allows testing your way out of getting vaccinated.
> Delta is confirmed to be more contagious and less deadly.
Sort of, delta is confirmed to be less contagious and less deadly among a (significantly) vaccinated population. It is probably more contagious than the initial variant among an unvaccinated population, yes. But whether or not its more or less deadly, or whether vaccines + improved treatments have reduced the severity/survivability isn't clear. So delta is less deadly in practice at a population level, but it might be more deadly in only the unvaccinated population, or the same, or less. We don't really know.
Agreed and it’s the “we don’t really know” but we’re forcing the vaccine on everyone that’s the problem. What we do know is that vaccinated can still catch and spread covid. The stats of breakthrough cases are skewed due to the CDCs methodology of tracking covid infections among the vaccinated.
> The stats of breakthrough cases are skewed due to the CDCs methodology of tracking covid infections among the vaccinated.
I guess, but the CDC isn't the only reliable source of information, and from everything else we see (international studies and natural experiments from things like hospitals testing all arrivals for all causes), the vaccine still has something like a 50-90% reduction in infection rate, depending on the particular variant and study. And beyond that, a 90%+ reduction in sever cases.
> There have been cases of covid infections among enclosed vaccinated groups
Yes, as the CDC website says, in bold "Vaccine breakthrough cases are expected". What we know is that the vaccines appear to be highly effective at preventing severe cases, and slightly less effective (though still pretty darn good) at preventing infection whatsoever.
Bayes rule would suggest that as the majority of people become vaccinated, we'll begin to see a larger and larger share of infections coming from vaccinated individuals. But, we'll also see fewer infections (and fewer deaths!) overall.
While we don't know precisely how delta compares to the initial variant, we do know its more infectious, and still quite deadly (from its impact in India). So we do know enough to draw the conclusion that Delta is dangerous, almost certainly more dangerous than the older variants, and we also have data to support the claim that vaccines are more effective immunity against delta than natural infection. That's enough information, or if it isn't, what else would convince you?
Should they wait until after people start dying again to implement preventative measures or something?
This is exactly the kind of bizarrely short-sighted reasoning that results in pandemics exploding in the first place: "Things aren't bad yet, so why do we need to do anything??"
Where do we end this then? Do we continue implementing lockdowns, mask mandates, forced vaccinations with every ebbs and flow…
Or do we realize our urgent care infrastructure has enough capacity, deaths are down- zero on some days, vaccines are available for free for anyone that wants one, masks can be worn by anyone anywhere when they feel uncomfortable, and actually start promoting a healthy lifestyle.
Or do you want to be in a perpetual state of a government controlled health crisis
If you want to take a political tangent, it is your choice. Again, this is a decision by a private company. If you are against big government, you should be in favor of the freedom of private companies and individuals implementing their own policy. In your single mindedness you have failed to realize that private companies being allowed to make their own decisions is actually not an example of big government. Also, you cannot have personal health Privacy without bug government. But that is a debate for another time.
It’s very much political and not science based when you have most states going one way versus a handful working with private companies for a health based system
> Today the entire state of New York had ZERO covid related deaths. Yet this week we saw NYC and State employees and now major private corporations mandate the vaccine.
It seems NYC has been registering a daily average of new 700 confirmed cases of covid, which is growing fast. This is a lower limit of the true rate of transmission as they reflect confirmed cases through molecular tests.
In this page, if you check the graph, you'll notice that NYC is registering a new wave of covid infections that is as the highest level in about two months.
Even though covid infections in NYC are spiking, death rates are not. This is expectedly the result of the vaccination campaign.
No wonder they are mandating the vaccine. That's the only way to prevent another death wave.
Source for which part? The numbers of NYC's infections and death rates, or that practically all covid-related deaths right now happen in patients who are not vaccinated?
For the record I will never disclosure my health status so don’t assume one way or another.