As a woman in tech, the problem is that men start hitting on you when they’ve had a few beers. This happens extremely frequently, so much that I have personally decided to discount what people say to me when they’re drunk at company events
Interesting. I wonder if the sector influences that. I've never seen men hit on women coworkers at happy hours. I Actually had a woman coworker start talking about going to a strip club after one and taking a bunch of other men and women there and inviting me too. I have to say, that wasn't something I was expecting (I was only there a year at that point). I'm in finance IT. I haven't noticed it in the office either. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if it happens on a small scale. I've had 2 women say... "stuff"... to me in the office before.
I dont know bro. it really depends on where I work. I agree that in some places that yes it was work work but at others it was a way of letting our guards down and coming together as a team. This helped relationships in the office since we were all drinking together...albeit this tended to be with select individuals (i.e. we would avoid invite those who were too serious). After a few drinks, we would debate work topics and right the wrongs of the world. In some companies, this is where the wheels are set in motion and opens up new channels of communication. Drinking together creates some kind of bond.
I do have a policy of not sleeping with anyone from work so that helped me have good boundaries and avoided trouble..
This is a sexist comment and could be career-ending if made by someone of the opposite sex. For a demonstration why:
"The problem is that (class of people that encompasses billions of unrelated individuals worldwide) start (any kind of negative action in particular)"
No matter what you fill those variables with, it remains a broad, harmful generalization. I'm sorry you had to work with
unprofessional assholes that won't take 'no' for an answer, but your experience is not license to slander literally half of the planet.
> As a woman in tech, the problem is that men start hitting on you when they’ve had a few beers.
> I'm sorry you had to work with unprofessional assholes that won't take 'no' for an answer, but your experience is not license to slander literally half of the planet.
You've broadened the original statement to say more than was commented. The original did not say "all men" or even "only men". Quite the disingenuous interpretation turned around to try to make up a controversy.
Is there any reason to believe that the "men in tech" are significantly different from all men? If anyone made sexist claims about women in tech, would they not actually be sexist because the claims are just about women in tech and not women in general?
If you're against the broadening the reading of claims, do you think that Garcia Martinez should be reinstated at Apple? For reference, he was fired over claims of sexism, because in a book he published before being hired, he wrote something along the lines of "Bay area women are weak, Eastern European women are strong"
> Not one sentence beginning this way in this context will ever be anything other than a sexist generalization.
> That was the point being made
It was not, as you accidentally recognize:
"I'm sorry you had to work with unprofessional assholes that won't take 'no' for an answer"
which recognizes that the sentiment/point does not apply to all men.
You are making a subjective interpretation, so I stand by the fact that you are being disingenuous and your interpretation is wrong on that basis, until specifically addressed.
> I think it's plain at this point that you are not approaching this in good faith
I'm not being critical of the point by picking a narrow interpretation (they meant to be critical of all men), despite acknowledging the limits of the point in the same post. Therefore, I'll disagree with the quoted assertion, as well. Good luck with whatever.
Please educate yourself on how this shuts down debate over intolerant behavior. The tolerance of other men is required for activity like this - and /obviously/ there are many men who find this behavior awful but also clearly /not enough/ to stop it from happening.
Yes, of course, not all men do this shit. But it’s enough to have a considerable impact on people. Usually there’s a small number of abusers and then a large group of people tolerating or egging on the abuse. This is why they’re describing a “frat bro” culture in the legal suit.
> mentioning a class of people without qualification colloquially means 'all'
Does it? I've never heard that usage and think you're probably inferring things. But there are cases where local language varies. In those cases you should try to understand the intent behind the statement. It's clear to me the writer did not intend the statement you're trying to attribute to them.
Do you say "I had lunch with friends" or "I had lunch with some of my friends"
It’s whataboutism. It’s changing the subject. It’s not grappling with the actual problem being presented. It’s presuming a bad faith attack on you via the group of words chosen. It’s about you having a desperate fear of being accused of something you didn’t do - it should be obvious that someone saying “men” is not literally talking about ALL MEN but you pretend as if it isn’t, and hijack the conversation.
Your argument in a vacuum I have no problem with - the frequency it comes up in order to distract from the context in which it comes up is troubling to say the least, and is something often done by bad faith actors. I’m not accusing you of bad faith - however, I’d invite you to look at the directionality of where the conversation has gone. Namely, very far away from the person being harmed and squarely into your feelings of being excluded.
For posterity I repost your original comment.
OP
> As a woman in tech, the problem is that men start hitting on you when they’ve had a few beers.
YOU
> I'm sorry you had to work with unprofessional assholes that won't take 'no' for an answer, but your experience is not license to slander literally half of the planet.
Your argument is as if the OP was saying that half of men on the planet come and hit on her specifically and inappropriately. For fucks sake.
I feel very ambivalent about your comment. Parents comment is sexist and you are absolutely correct in saying that men can and are fired at some workplaces for making similar comments that generalize women.
