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Help me figure out whether I invented tracking cookies in 1995
4 points by garyrob on July 12, 2021 | hide | past | favorite | 11 comments
My name is Gary Robinson (https://www.garyrobinson.net; there's a much more complete version of this story there).

In 1995 I had put together a collaborative filtering algorithm and was looking for applications. One thought I came up with was: target ads according to the viewer's interests. But where to get data? Ideally, it would involve seeing what their interests were, as exhibited in their web browsing choices. But how to do that?

At first blush, browser cookies didn't appear like they could help because they can only be written or read from the internet domain from which they were written. So for example, if a cookie is written by a CGI at golfing.com, it can't be accessed by a CGI at boating.com. It followed that the idea of having the servers for golfing.com and boating.com both accessing a central server at some other location to track user activity wouldn't work; there was no way to know that the same user had visited both sites because any cookies written at one site would be inaccessible to the other.

But as I looked further into the general topic of Web programming, I noticed that a Web site running on one domain could invoke a CGI running on another domain. And there seemed to be no reason why that CGI, running on that other domain, couldn't write its own cookie to the local computer. So, if Web pages running on golfing.com and boating.com each invoked a CGI running at adserver.com, then that CGI could know that the user had visited both sites. The cookie might be inaccessible to gofling.com and boating.com servers, but that didn't matter, because it would be accessible to adserver.com.

I asked about this possible use in Netscape-related forums. One response said: "You could, in theory, if you had source for your server, hack in someway for it to send the cookie somewhere. There is no existing protocol for doing so." So, while most web programmers probably know this is doable now, that apparently wasn't the case in 1995. But some testing showed that it could indeed be done.

I wrote a patent application, "Collaborative Filtering in World Wide Web Advertising," [1] which was focused on my CF algorithm and didn't have claims that existed independently of it, but did discuss the idea of tracking cookies as an implementation detail.

Google owns it now. This year, there's a patent troll attacking Google and Twitter, where, in a legal brief representing both companies, Google and Twitter refer to the tracking cookie "Robinson's Cookie." [2]

Why am I posting about this today? Well, I've noticed the fact that people have been selling NFTs for all manner of things. Maybe someone would like to buy an NFT representing the original conception of tracking cookies for advertising? If so, it seemed I should do more due diligence before offering it for sale. The patent priority date is Dec. 27, 1995. But discussion group messages I've saved for the last 25+ years show that I had come up with the cookie idea, but not yet confirmed that it would actually work, by Nov. 15 of that year.

My thought is to create a video in which I tell the story for the purchaser. I think it may make for an interesting story, involving such facets as the president of a traditional direct-mail marketing company getting down on his knees in front of me in the atrium for a conference venue, raising his hands into the air, and repeatedly bowing all the way to the ground, chanting "You are Big Brother! You are Big Brother!" (Such sentiments led to my adding a lot of privacy-related features to the patent, which resemble those actually in use decades later.) Of course, I'd throw in a signed hardcopy of the patent for good measure. :)

I'd be very interested in any information or thoughts the HN community may have about this.

[1] https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/c3/d4/40/239073914fa7fc/US5918014.pdf [2] https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/ptab-filings/IPR2021-00485/3



> Maybe someone would like to buy an NFT

Assuming the story is interesting enough for people to bid for an NFT, then:

What about writing a book instead / as well?

(Can one do both? or maybe things included in an NFT cannot also be in a book?)

Or what about finding [other people who were involved in the early Internet and came up with technologies and ideas that nowadays 20 - 25 years later are "taken for granted"], and write a book together? Or maybe (some of) them would be interested in getting interviewed and having their stories included in a book, together with your story. Maybe a bit similar to the book "Founders at Work", but about well known early Internet technologies instead of early software / Internet companies? (At the same time, maybe that's way more work than what you originally had in mind)


Very reasonable suggestion, I just don't feel like spending my time writing a book! I've got things to do that would be more rewarding for me. And the NFT phenomenon is real. If someone would spend $100's of K's for the first newspaper column to tout itself as an NFT, why would nobody want to spend anything for invention of the tracking cookie, given the significance of the tracking cookie in the development of the internet? That wouldn't seem logical to me. So this seems worth a try!


And while I'd enjoy contributing a chapter to a "Founders at Work"-type book, but I certainly wouldn't want to go to the trouble of finding people to write such chapters, trying to interest publishers, etc. As you say, "maybe that's way more work than what you originally had in mind"! :)


Well, thanks for ruining the www and selling patent rights to Google. (Imagine if those rights were owned by the EFF.) Its not so much the tracking of www users concept that is so annoying, its the need for web pages to trigger all these extraneous requests. A gazillion unnecessary requests to tracking servers returning no useful content to the user. Even the simplest of pages with minimal content transformed into dumpster fires of ad and tracking-related cascades of Javascript-triggered requests. What a mess.

Honestly, I do not understand how anyone except scumbags, e.g., the guy on his knees in the atrium, would think this is cool. Good luck.


Yeah, I can't say I'm defending where it's gone, at all. But I did think it was cool at the time and could result in people being shown ads they'd be interested in. And, it was inevitable; I'm sure it was thought of entirely independent of me by other people later (if not before, which is what I'm trying to find out). And as I mentioned, I DID put a lot of privacy stuff into the patent. But I didn't foresee, at all, the crazy degree to which it would affect loading times, etc.!!!


Also, I want to stress that while the patent "taught" how to use browser cookies for tracking, the specification was written in such a way that claims for the cookie tracking mechanism by itself couldn't be created. The specification was about a specific technique for recommending ads that would (hopefully) be in line with their interests. Accordingly, I don't believe the ad has, or can, be used offensively because I don't think that recommendation technique is being used. Rather, Google is using it to protect itself against patent trolls. (And a small additional piece of clarification, the ad was sold to DoubleClick, which itself was bought by Google.)


I must have been in a big rush or highly distracted, or both, when I wrote that comment, because a couple times I used the word "ad" when I meant the word "patent"!


There is no way you could have forseen the future we are in. I apologise if my comment appears as having caustic tone. (But the guy in the atrium really does sound like a sleazebag!)

If you really care about the issue of internet privacy perhaps you could donate the proceeds of the NFT sale to the EFF.


Thanks for saying that. I think the situation is similar for Mark Zuckerberg, although on a vastly more huge scale for him personally. There is no way he understood at the beginning that his creation was going to play a role in endangering our democracy. What happens is that you just have an exciting idea that seems like it might be able to do some good and make you some money, but then over time all the unforeseen and/or unforeseeable implications unfold. It's like opening pandora's box and having all this crazy stuff unexpectedly fly out.

I do care about internet privacy, but I also care about my health and old age. My wife had to give up her career due to an extreme case of Lyme disease (insurance didn't cover her long-term treatment), and has had cancer; and I've had cancer 3 times including 3 major surgeries, radiation etc. I'd like an NFT to make some money that will lower our risks of medical expenses putting us out on the street if things get extremely bad medically.

I must admit that I'm surprised that HN apparently has virtually no interest in this. Maybe I need a better title? I don't really get it. If I was reading this story from someone on HN, I'd think it was interesting!


The question I have is what does one do once the Pandora's Box is open. Some things are more important than money and attention. Zuckerberg, who claims he is in control, lacks the character to do the right thing.

Programmers have an obsession with licenses but how many actually understand licensing (not many, IME), and how often do we see a programmer try to enforce a license (rarely). Certain uses of software, e.g., to destroy privacy, can be limited in the license grant.

You should try re-submitting at a different time. Submitting a link to the patent itself, or the story of the current patent litigation, might be interesting.


I must admit I do kind of agree with you about Zuck. He has SO much money that he has absolutely no personal worries about his ability to live a comfortable life. I believe that he should really, really dedicate his work now toward enabling facebook to be a help to democracies rather than a threat. It is NOT an easy task. It is FAR harder than creating FB in the first place. But he could try. He certainly has the resources.

Thanks for the suggestions about how to relaunch the story. I may try one of your suggestions or come up with another idea along the same lines.




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