Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

> they have no other options

This isn’t really true and should not motivate us to value desperation. Survivorship bias prevents us from hearing the voices of those who chose the final solution to desperation.



I think the OP is just making an observation not a value statement consider his last bit is he doesn't know whether or not its a good thing. I also think this kinda doesn't follow because during down turns higher ups also commit suicide at much higher rates because they are likely to fall from much higher up. If you are already poor continuing to be poor while terrible isn't really a change in your perceived state


Yeah, I was trying to make more of an observation as opposed to a value judgement. I do think it's important to recognize the role of desperation because it's a powerful but negative motivator. It's really a mixed bag. Kind of like how are biggest scientific achievements have all been funded by the military in an attempt to more efficiently kill each other. I'm not sure what the balance should be.


I think we should ask which particular humans are desperate and which are curious.

Thousands of scientists and engineers would not have been motivated to work on ballistic rocketry and guidance systems if they had not been curious to learn about the moon and outer space.

Congress would never have spent 4% of the 1966 US federal budget on the Apollo program[1] if it had not been desperate to tell allies and enemies about our ability to land a payload in Leningrad.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_program#


It seems like the desperation is the more powerful motivator but carries significant side effects. I wonder if it's possible to motivate people in meaningful ways with only carrot and no stick.

NASA inspired millions of children in the 60s and 70s to go into science yet real progress in space technology seems to have only picked up recently. Similarly with nuclear technology, it took 12 years to get from nukes could exist to 15KT yields to 50MT yields but we still don't have fusion and fission reactor designs haven't changed that much in decades despite significant problems.

Sometimes I feel like people are change adverse and won't just change things to improve them. People only really change things when there's a significant threat of them getting worse. Reality is surely more complicated and nuanced but I think it will mark a significant change in our evolution when we improve things because we know they can be better instead of racing to avoid a disaster.


> when we improve things because we know they can be better instead of racing to avoid a disaster.

I’d encourage you to read the Wikipedia article on Taylorism and then to read The Toyota Way and/or Leadership is Language.


Ah, I may have misinterpreted the word “undervalued” as a value statement.


Fair enough. Maybe I should've used "underestimated".


If you’re taking about suicide, we do have statistics to tell part of that story.


And it's way too high. Perhaps we shouldn't innovate at all costs. Perhaps it's okay to slow innovation if more people live.


Or perhaps the person "burning the midnight oil" will come up with an innovation that will save even more lives, and which is only possible by a single person putting in the mental effort.

I don't have a strong opinion on this issue, IMO it's too complicated and subjective to feel confident in any particular stance. There's no question in my mind that entrepreneurs taking larger personal risks are more motivated to make things work, but whether that translates to a net positive or not? Who knows?


People also stay up late to see the stars.

Where we see desperation in a company history, we should look again to check if it is actually relentlessly resourceful curiosity.


You are presenting a false dichotomy, it can and often is degrees of both.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: