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Never, ever happened. Ever.

You're conflating "NSA secretly rerouting shipping company deliveries to end-users, installing their firmware, then senting it on" with "Cisco willingly did that".

Cisco was unaware, and once aware (thanks to Snowden), Cisco took steps to try to prevent it, by altering shipping destinations, at the last minute, on route.




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We ban accounts that post like this. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules from now on. We've had to ask you not to post in the flamewar style to HN before, so this is a big deal.


Eh?

So, while this whitepaper is news to me, how is this an "NSA backdoor".

Reading up on this, it sounds like

* it was required, much as with phone tapping, by the US gov

* ergo, ISPs needed it, were mandated to have it

* therefore, CISCO implemented it

* this protocol was for lawful intercept. Police, FBI, everyone.

While beyond annoying, this is not a back door for the NSA. Nor is it even secret. Before you get all pissy, you should at least state fact as fact. Not exaggerate. Not make it about a specific actor, when it isn't. And not during a whataboutism.

If your goal is to let people know, I assure you, spouting unvarnish, direct truth will help a lot more.


Nowhere is it said this was mandated. That’s your assumption not supported by evidence.

So let’s run through it. Cisco writes white paper supporting LE back door access. LE/IC use hard coded back doors as revealed in the Snowden and Vault7 leaks. You’re saying it never happened, ever. Maybe you’re right (you’re not) but you spoke so firmly! Do you know something I don’t?


Page 4 of the IBM white paper says:

In 2005 the FCC ruled that CALEA applies to broadband Internet providers

So yes, it was mandated. You may disagree with the ruling, but ISPs were required to do something, and Cisco enabled this on products for ISPs. Did they have it beforehand? Yes. However, this product only existed on certain products, and other countries required this before the 2005 FCC ruling (again, from IBM white paper).

But of course, this still isn't "Cisco put in back doors for the NSA". This is "Cisco putting in back doors for law enforcement, including even local police".

Further to that, everyone was aware of this. You can't have a 2010 white paper by IBM, before the Snowden leaks even(2013), if it was secret. And realistically, a "back door" isn't quite that, if it is well known. It's just another access point in a product.

Secondly the 'Snowden' leaks, which had everyone quite pissed, including Google (whom I hate, but...) starting the big push for SSL everywhere, were not caused by these specific back doors.

Heck, this white paper is from 2010, and this 'law enforcement' "back door" was well known, AND!, not in all Cisco products! How, then, could Google be surprised by this revelation. That this back door existed?

How could anyone?

It was not a secret. It was not in all products.

No, Cisco routers were infiltrated in two ways. Undisclosed vulnerabilities, which the NSA was aware of, and used against all router vendors to install NSA malware. And again, by intercepting shipments to end-users, installing NSA backdoors and malware, then resealing and shipping the product onward.

This is what the Guardian Snowden leaks talk about!

The big differences between China(and your whataboutism), and the US, is that if you don't let the Chinese government into your company, do precisely what it says, and install all the backdoor software it wants?

You don't have a company any more, your freedom, and maybe even your life.

Meanwhile, the NSA, has been acting illegally, and does NOT have the support of US tech vendors. In fact, US tech vendors are hostile to NSA's attempts to subvert their products, including lobbying US politicians to stop this sort of behaviour.

There is a vast difference between these two things, and in all of the above, Cisco did not willingly put "back doors" in anything for the NSA.

So in reasons to your question? Yes, I know something you don't.

History. Factual, actual, history. Not revisionist.

I'm happy to re-examine any of this, if you can provide links to data showing Cisco allowing NSA agents into its midst, and installing NSA spyware for its products at the factory. On purpose. Which aren't open, and were hidden from everyone.

Or something similar to this.

Because otherwise, your statement is absolutely, positively, not factual. How can I say otherwise?

And yes my original response was firm, because I've seen others say this sort of thing. We must be factual in our claims, not hyperbolic!


What IBM white paper? Show me the law where this was mandated. Because no, you are in fact misrepresenting the truth.

So, your I agree with you in not being hyperbolic. However, let’s just say I have exceedingly applicable industry experience. (IC and LE) I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I’m right. So now my burden is finding what I can in the public domain to share this truth with you without violating NDAs.


What IBM whitepaper?

The one linked in the tomshardware url, in your own post! The whitepaper by IBM, you even talk about in your post!

Years later, in 2010, an IBM security researcher showed

Apparently you're discussing how IBM showed this, without even reading them doing so?!

So now I've done more research into IBM'S whitepaper, which you summarize, than you?

Dude... wth?


Please don't do flamewars on HN. I've warned the other commenter above but you've broken the site guidelines as well. Not cool.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html


Understood, I'll check my tone.


Btw, with respect to your 'show me the law', 'mandated' doesn't mean 'legislated'.

That very same IBM whitepaper you cited, claims the FCC mandated it. As in, pushed an interpretation of a regulation. Are you claiming the whitepaper is wrong?

The whitepaper which you used to validate your claims?

Or, are only the parts of it which you agree with correct?


As far as the white paper, I mixed up Cisco and IBM in my head on that. As far as “mandated”, laws and policy mandating back door access have been shot down repeatedly in the real world.

The claim of an FCC mandate in a white paper does not indicate legality of deployment in the real world is what I mean.




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